My conversation with Nicole Rollender, founder of Strand Writing Services, was one that will make you want to take action immediately. My favorite entrepreneurs are those that leave it all on the table - they're open to sharing the minute details on each aspect of their business growth...the roses and the thorns of it.
After being downsized from her six-figure salary executive editor-in-chief role, Nicole decided to go out on her own. Within less than a year she scaled her business to six-figures and has never fallen below that income. In this episode, she shares super specific insights and tactics on how to set the foundation to scale your business to a consistent six-figure income each year...in a sustainable way.
From how to structure your payment process and cash flow to showing up as a CEO rather than a victim, Nicole gives direct, valuable guidance - all substance, no sugar. Should clients pay you upfront? Which is better - a 3-month or 6-month retainer? Should you do test projects to introduce yourself to a new client? What's the quickest way to get a set income every month? Should I zero in on a niche? Is LinkedIn worth it as a business growth tool? Listen in as we discuss all these questions and more.
Want to connect with Nicole? Check out her website, STRAND Writing Services.
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast, where we dive into tactical strategies to grow your business. And to make an impact on this world. A huge part of success is keeping your mindset and vision on track. So this is a major part of our process. And this podcast. Let's do this Hey, everybody, welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast today I have Nicole Wallander, owner and chief copywriter at strand writing Services. Welcome, Nicole. Thank you so much for having me. Excited to be here excited to talk to a fellow copywriter. I always love it. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you based? How did you get started a little bit about your background? Yeah, so I'm in New Jersey have lived here my whole life. And I'm one of those people you might relate. I always knew I was going to be a writer. I was four. And I was like, I'm going to be a writer, mom and dad. That's what I'm going to do. And I went to college. And then I went to graduate school and I got my MFA in creative writing. And my parents were like, what's going on? What are you like, why can't you be a physical therapist or computer programmer? Right. But I was like, No, I mean, that's that was my calling. I'm also a poet, my second full length collections coming out in summer of 2023. But I spent my whole corporate career as a writer and editor, so editor of magazines, content marketer, marketing writer, doing educational programs for people, so just a lot of different media and marketing actually started my career in a newsroom, like a little terminal, you know, run out, cover the story, run back get like 30 minutes to bang it out. So you know, just really like old school journalism start. And I have never wavered, still writer, still writer this day. And I love it. That is so cool. I mean, don't you just feel? I don't know, sometimes I'm like, Oh, I get paid to write, you know, I mean, it's pretty cool. You know that, you get to actually do that for your career. Right. Right. And I, and I know we'll get to this in a little bit. But when I was an editor of magazines, I loved magazines, I loved it. But there's something about the poll of actually just sitting down to write, and that feels kind of like your authentic self. So when I was able to serve my business, and I was like, Well, I'm writing every day, I feel like I'm being totally authentically myself, and kind of what I was put here to do. So it is really cool. We'll say, Hey, I write all day, and I make money doing it. So tell us about how strand writing services came about. And then we'll get to the meat of our discussion, which I'm so excited for. But tell us a little about your company. Yeah. So I call myself or I did call myself an accidental entrepreneur. I was one of these people. I had a great career as a publishing executive making six figures. I was like, I'm gonna do this forever until I retire, you know? And, you know, like most people, I would say, Oh, well, if I wasn't doing this, I would launch a business, right? Like a lot of people say that. And then five years ago, and 2017, I was downsized, it came out of the blue, because it was not about performance. It was just financial, you know, how things go in, in media and marketing? And it was like, Oh, my gosh, you know, um, you know, now what do I do? I was there for 11 years. And so I started looking for jobs. And then to add insult to injury, I didn't get any job offers. And I'm like, you know, Phil, you know? So then I said, maybe this is the time to launch a business. So you don't know like, if you got a group of people, and you're trying to decide what to eat for dinner? Or what color to paint the room. There's always somebody who's like, No, I don't want Chinese food. No, I don't like this yellow. I told, you know, multiple people in my life thinking about starting a business and like 100% They were totally supportive. I said, You know what, this is the time. So I was in Philadelphia, I had gone my last ever job interview. And I said, you know, this is like a really cool potential job, which I didn't get, by the way, but it was a potential job that like five years earlier, it would have been my dream job. And I said that this is a point in time when it's either sink or swim, go for it. So I just said, I'm not doing any more job interviews, I'm just jumping in, you know, full throttle, and I'm gonna do but, and I did and I didn't look back and then since then, I've had companies offered me full time jobs, but at the time that I was like, I gotta make money right now. Like, you know, no money is coming in. I didn't get anything and so it was like really the journey like push that I needed to just go all in and like one other quick side note was my magazines. Were read by small business owner. So I almost got like a crash course and running a business and kind of got bitten by that entrepreneurial bug during that time. And so I think it kind of prepared aremy for what? Like the risks and the rewards, and I think it was kind of primed to really see if it didn't work for me. Yeah, isn't it funny how those things work out? You know, like, kind of throws you into these situations? And you're like, Yeah, I'm at a crossroads, what should I do now? So, I want to talk to you, there's a few things I want to talk to you about. But let's get down to business. So you have scaled your business into a multi six figure business, which is just incredible. And, you know, the vast majority of the audience of this podcast will all entrepreneurs in various stages of their businesses, right, so let's talk about your, your tips on like, you know, there's a lot of people who are they're building their business, they want to get to where you are. What tips do you have for people, you know, what insight can you share as far as building your own business to scale to a multi six figure business? Yeah, so one quick note, my first month in business, I made $1,500. And that was in January. And I was like, okay, like, Am I making six figures in my corporate job? My first goal was just replacing in common, I think it's like, what is that number 8600, something, whatever it is a month into you, if you do that monthly, you're at 60 or so by April of that seems to like four months later, I'd hit that number. And I have never gone below it since then, I was literally like, I'm not available to make less than this ever, ever, ever. And that has been true. It's always been that or a lot more. Yeah, so I wrote down a bunch of tips. I think the first thing is cash flow. I only accept payments 100%. upfront. And I know, there's a lot of writers and they're working for, you know, they're working with publications, and they're like, well, the publications don't pay me two months later. And I've my advice is stop working with them. For me, since my since I'm a solopreneur. And I have some contractors and the cash coming in as my salary, there can be no backup, I have to pay, you know, people that I hired to pay my business expenses. And this is my salary. So by switching to 100%, upfront payment, no ifs, ands, or buts, it completely transformed the cash flow of my business. And I understand there's gonna be people out there who say, but but nobody. And that's cool. Like, if you're not doing that, right now, you can start the next prospect you talk to tell them, that's how you work, you're going to have that bridge of time, it could be six months before you get there. But we're in a society where we pay for everything upfront. And we're okay with that. Businesses are trying to protect their cash flow, of course, by paying you after the fact. But I look at it as I'm creating custom works that are for a client. And so I'm not going to start working on it until I get paid. So it's literally just changing your policies, and changing your mindset. And you can say, oh, but but I'm going to lose clients, I mean, you might so what, you know, you can have that transition, if you're working with clients who pay you a certain way, you can continue working with them. So you have money coming in. But as you transition, you know, that can be your new way of working with people. And you will get to the point where you're doing that 100% of the time. And I think that's really important. I think a lot of you know, I always think, oh, that that's kind of a silly tip, everyone's doing it, but they're not. A lot of people are not doing that. And especially with product based businesses, if you have to outlay the money for the products and the labor, and you know, especially if they're custom creations, you know, you're acting like a bank, and you shouldn't be so I think that's like, number one, just to get that cash flow really clean and coming in. Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I have started doing that as well. You know, if they want to book even any of my time, or for projects, it's all upfront. 100% And so, and you're right, listen, it's like, you know, you don't want to come from this mindset of, you know, you want to come from an abundance, mindset of abundance, right? So if you're just scared that you're gonna lose clients because of this. So it's like, Well, do you want those clients like, you know, like, you may lose a client or two, because that's not the way that they want to work with you. However, you're also going to gain really strong clients that do and then you're, you're you're cutting out that risk of not being paid at all, or super late so I Yeah, 100% agree with that. It's like, great. And I think the second thing and I think this plagues entrepreneurs and alike happens throughout you know, this is your baby, like your your business, right? And I was working with a business coach early on, and I was like, telling her all these things is like volume though regards to the and then she's like, okay, the good news is you have one problem, like that's just one problem. The bad news is it's a big problem to solve. The problem is you're not acting like a CEO. You're not coming from a mindset of confidence. You're all over the place. You don't own what's happened. thing, you know, and that took me a little bit to figure out, right? Because it's like, well act as if act as if you're the CEO or like, what does that mean? It's like, if you're trying to lose weight or get in shape, it's like, well act as if act as if you've lost the 40 pounds. Well, what does that mean? Well, it means you prioritize self care, you prioritize working out, you eat clean, most of the time you plan your cheat meal, so you act as if so if you want to lose the 40 pounds, just start doing that. So as a CEO, you know, there's a whole gamut of things, but I mean, it runs from, okay, I'm the CEO, and I'm sitting down to answer Help Desk emails, because I'm avoiding figuring out how to grow my business, you know, so then in that case, do you need to outsource you need to hire someone to help you with that, too. And then this is like, I think this is like the core of that. And it kind of leads into my second point is, I've been in a lot of Facebook groups. And people will say, they'll call their clients, their bosses, their managers, they'll say, This is what my clients are doing to me, they're not doing anything to you. You're embracing a victim mode, you're embracing an employee mode, and you're accepting this, you're, you're existing in a place of chaos, where you don't need to be like, do we tell ourselves that this is how it has to be that it has to be hard, I don't know. But it's in the mindset of, you're the architect of your business. Nothing is happening to you. I mean, it is, you know, things are happening to you. But you can change it in an instant, you can be accountable, you can create the reality that you're operating in. Right? And that goes to, you know, people saying, well, I really bad at writing articles, but that's what people want, and I hate doing. So that's all I'm gonna do? Well, no, you should probably be doing something that you're good at, and you maybe even like doing and you can charge a lot of money for my next point was sort of like, people complain about their clients, well, that's on you, like, you're the one working with these clients. So it's like, what you can do, instead of answering helpdesk emails, you know, you can add your ad and do it. And you can say, and this was a huge turning point for me to Who do I really want to work with? Like, what, what are the qualities of these people? How, what are their temperaments? Where are their personalities? How do they work with me? You know, some people love meetings, I hate. I hate meetings, I'm really I want to be in the weeds working. So I have to really think about, you know, one, what are the qualities of the people? And then how do I want to work with them. And then I set up my contracts with these boundaries of how it works. So I have meetings, maybe one or two days a week in blocks, so that I can meet with clients. And nobody ever calls me on my phone, they used to call me on my phone and be in the gym. And I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. And I just decided, I'm going to tell my clients, don't call me ever, if you want to talk to me, email me, email me, my business manager, and we'll get you hooked up with a time. I think it's like, once you come to this moment of like, I'm in control, I am in charge. And I'm the only one to blame when things aren't going the right way. And I mean, if something is not going well, and you continue to let it happen, it's on you. So but then at the same time, you have the power to change it almost instantly. You know, and so I think it's it's taking accountability and realizing that this is your business, like you need to set the tone and set the direction. And once you come from a place of empowerment, like I'm the expert, I'm in control, I know what's going on, it changes that you're not sitting or lying. subscribed for Chris Christmas, and this horrible boss of mine is going to be sending me 15 blogs, right? I mean, I'd be like, why are you even in this scenario? You're not an employee? Right. So I mean, I think it's really coming to that mindset shift of going into CEO mode and being accountable. You know, I think that's the biggest shift you can make as a business owner, I think when you're starting out, yeah. And I, I think that it's a struggle for a lot of people, right, because they're coming from a lot of people are coming from a corporate environment or they're used to being the employee. Yeah. So they start their own business. And then it's almost like, they just keep on with that role as if they are the employee. And they're like, well, now I have 10 bosses instead of one. What did I do? Well, what you did was you recreated the situation you had, right, but yeah, with your own business that I think you said, you know, the word power. That is it. It's like when to create your own business, you do have the power and you need to embrace that and create the culture that you want in your business that no one's going to do it for you. And so you have to be the CEO like you said, and not the employee. Yeah, and I think kind of like, piggybacking on that is when I get on, I talked to this this one, he's like a, like a coach for screen printers. And he says He had said to me, I talked to a lot of people and I reject any percent of them as my clients is like, Can you recognize who is a potential client for you? So for me, if I get on a call with somebody, and they start asking me for hourly rates, and they start asking you to track time, and they start, like, there's already this weird imbalance of power, the way that I show up on a call, as I'm a super professional copywriter, and content creator, I don't show up for you to ask me hourly rates, like I come to listen to your issues and what your problems are. And I'm here to prescribe, like what I think is going to solve your problems. So if you're talking to me about hourly rates and tracking time, you are looking for someone who's not me, probably looking for more junior level person, and I have no problem telling them that. And it's a cordial conversation. And I think that's the thing too, I think that you need to show up with, you know, knowledge of what you do, you need to understand your process, you need to be able to articulate that you need to be able to look at their issues and their goals and prescribe what's going to solve their problems. That's how you show up as an expert. That's how you make more money. If you're just an order taker, like, Oh, you want five blogs, okay, yes, I could do that. I'll track my time. I mean, you're, you're at a different level, there's nothing wrong with being at that level, because, like, I was doing this for 20 years, on the job. So I was ready to step in, you know, you might be newer, and you might have to build a portfolio or whatever, and that's fine. And but it's to build up to that level of expertise. I think that you know, that's, that's required. Yeah, and I'm wondering like, what, what kind of pricing structure structures do you typically work with? Like, do you do retainers or you do mostly like, you know, a package deal? Like what how typically, do you structure it? Yeah, I actually do two different things. And that's actually another one of my points how to scale the fastest and most sustainably is retainers. And, for people who don't know, a retainer is where a company pays you a set amount of money for a month, and you do certain things, it could be a certain number of hours, a certain number of deliverables, but it's a recurring arrangement. And when I started, I was doing three month retainers, which I quickly realized, were not the most beneficial, because month one, you're kind of onboarding the client learning each other and wearing the work month two, you're like, ooh, sitting pretty. And then by Month three, you're like sweating and going, are they going to renew? So I opted to six month retainers and year long retainers with, of course, a 30 day out for either party and the contract. So it's really like a no risk situation for them. And so for the past two to three years, I've had five to six retainer a month, the retainer, for me usually ranges from like 2000 to 5000 a month, depending. You know, for people who haven't done this, companies are really willing and excited to talk about retainers, because they're not paying your benefits. They're not giving you an office, you know, you're paying your own taxes. And so for the price of what might be a super entry level employee, they're getting someone who has a 1015 20 years of experience, and they're also not training you, you know, you're usually ready to hit the ground running. So I found that retainers work really well. What I usually do is I get on the phone with a client, and they're like, Hey, this is what I'm looking to do. And I asked them what their their budget is. And generally, I'll give them a better price than if it was just, you know, one project and that sweet spot of that two to $5,000. I feel like it's easy for them to pay. And they're usually willing to sign on pretty quickly. I do one off projects as well, you know, where somebody might say, I need a website rewrite. And I need to, you know, to email sequences, and I need a brand voice guide. But I typically also will start about 5k for projects like that, because I do a very deep, you know, research and upfront kind of messaging, deep dive and I explain all that to them, too. I say, here's how I work. Here's the whole process that I go through. I'm not just another writer, this is how it works. I'm not just you know, pulling messages on the air, I'm talking to your clients and doing all this stuff. And when I kind of explained to them the whole package deal about my whole process and everything like that, they're usually willing to sign on. One other thing I wanted to mention with this, when I started, I didn't have a ton of confidence, right? So at one point in time, everybody was asking me for test projects, which for someone with 20 years of experience and a huge portfolio, I shouldn't be doing that. But I was doing that. And I was getting into you know, all of these different companies and it was a huge waste of time for me. And that was another thing where if somebody is like, Hey, do you work hourly? I'm like, No. Do you do test projects? No, because you can look at my website. You can look at any number of samples you can like testimonials and I think that's again, like you'll go to a doctor's it will come You do a test project, you don't call a plumber and say, Can you do a test? So I think that's the other thing as well, that when you show up as the expert prescribing what they need, you know, here's my whole process. No, I don't do test projects, it's easier to ask for a retainer, and they'll pay you up front. But the retainers are the quickest way to get that set income. So you're not sweating every month, like, oh, I need a new project every single month. So I really just the base of my business is retainers. And then I do want off projects as they come in. And as I want to do something, which is an extra income. Okay, yeah, that makes total sense. You're speaking my language sister. And so and where do you find your clients? Like, how do you build up your pipeline? Yeah, so people talk about niching. And specializing. So I did have the dej, which is decorated apparel, so any apparel that people put logos on embroidery screen printing, so that was the the market that I was at, and so I did deep knowledge in there, which I think, you know, if you do have a niche, right, and you have a special product knowledge, or you have a career in an industry, like construction, or you know, real estate or whatever, and you have that knowledge, you're also a writer, that is a good place to start, because it's hard to find good writers who also are subject matter experts. So that's one, one thing I'm gonna get my pitching thing is I gotta just want to say this, and then specializing, some people will say, Well, I just do blogs, I kind of do everything because I have such a varied, but you know, some people might say, I just write websites, or real estate agents, I just write, you know, sales pages for online coaches. So like, that's one place to sort of, like, if you niche and you specialize, you do both, you can kind of become an expert in that area. And then you become a name. But when I started, I cold pitched, I use LinkedIn. And I would just email people. And I found that, you know, it's a numbers game. Like sometimes I could send two emails, and within 15 minutes, they're both like, I want to talk to you. Other times, I might send 40 emails when there's no response. But to me, I don't want to be in Upwork. I don't want to be on Fiverr. I don't want to be applying for jobs. I don't even want that vibe, right? So I'm showing up saying, Hey, your company is interesting to me. Here's something maybe I can offer for you. And if they liked the pitch, because a lot of times people would say I get hundreds of pitches, and you're Zeeland when I responded to because I like said something to me. I've already given them the test. I've already shown them what my writing can do if it gets them to call me or to respond to me. I've already shown them how it works. And I'm the one. The one thing that I would stumble over when I first started was like, I need to mind read and you look at this website and know what they need. No, you really don't you can propose something. What if your pitch is really good, and I like well, this person is proposing locks, but I really need someone to do email copywriting, they're still going to email you, they're still going to respond if they like your pitch. And it's timely, there's something about the vibe that they like they will respond to, you know, the mind read exactly what they need. But I but I use LinkedIn, LinkedIn is very powerful for connecting with people one on one, and then also sending cold emails. I mean, it does require some dedication, but I found that by year, three, four, or five, and especially now with five, I get referrals all the time, people find me they find my website, and I don't really do any, I haven't done any patient in like a year at this point. So I feel like it's a compounding effect, you know that that a certain point, you don't necessarily have to do it as accurately but you know, if I'm looking for clients, I do then go back to that, you know, the emails, the LinkedIn, and I generally can find people very quickly. Yeah, LinkedIn can really be a treasure trove and and it's great too, because you can learn more about the person so you can kind of really personalize your outreach as well. So it comes across as a conversation, right? Rather than you just kind of blasting your promotions. at them. It's actually a conversation with them. So yeah, I agree people should take a deeper look at LinkedIn. Is there other tools or processes that, you know, have changed your business for the better that you'd want to mention to the audience? Um, I use Google Calendar. And this is gonna sound like sort of, you know, but have you heard of people saying, like, oh, I, I don't know I like Ben time or I like quantum leap time or something like I don't know, I didn't see some coaches doing that. But like, the thing is about creative businesses and time is that your work can stretch to fill the time like if I need to write in about page, it could take me eight hours if I'm not in the right headspace, but it could also take me an hour, right. And so one of the biggest challenges with having six retainers and extra projects was figuring out time. So I hire a business manager and she does As all things with my calendar, she creates my calendar, she puts everything in there. But we're always talking about how to use time. We have tried, like, do we do one client a day? Do we put two clients in a day? Do we, you know, we've broken down the processes. So like, for example, say I have eight articles that I need to write for December. So when November, she's already blocked off time where it's like, start researching, you know, ask your research assistant to start reaching out to sources start putting things and we calendar it out. And we play with time, we say like, how can we get the most? How can we get the most done at least amount of time. And then four times this year, I think I was able to get all my month's work done in two weeks. So I literally had no work for two months, or sorry, for two weeks out of the month. And so I think for me, you got to think to yourself, they're not paying you for your blood, sweat and tears, who cares how many hours it took you nobody cares? If you're under a table crying at three in the morning, nobody cares. They just want the the you know, they just want the result. So how can you make the most money in the least time with giving them the most value? And I think, you know, playing with that and understanding that as a creative. It's going to change over time. And you have to be flexible with it. But I think that's been the biggest awareness for me of really using the calendar and saying, how many hours are you actually working. And I think it makes sense to kind of track your time to really see if you're working way too many hours, you might need to make a change. Like I said earlier, if you are doing work that is taking way too long, you may need to switch to a different type of work that takes you less time where you can still make the same money. And I think that's kind of key to look at. And measure. Yeah, I agree. Like time blocking the calendar is huge. Like when I when you're not doing that. I feel like you can flounder a lot. And a lot of things can fall through the cracks too. You know, you could have things that you forget to do and you know, and then you're tight to a dead deadline. You're like, oh, no, that never made it on my calendars. It didn't get done. So yeah, I 100% agree with that is there you're busy right you have the five retainers, you're growing this, you know credible business? Are their daily routines that kind of help with your your business and personal success at some people work out meditate, journal, is there anything that you kind of throw in there? Yeah, I work out every day. That's basically non negotiable. There was one time when I didn't and I realized I was really because I'd be sitting all day and it was like being too cerebral. And I it wasn't I needed balance. The other thing that I do is gratitude. Because I think you know, sometimes when we like what is what is the cute, like, what is the place that you started out. So I started for freedom, it wasn't about the money. When I started about freedom, I have two kids, they were seven and four when I was seven and three when I started. And part of my goal was like I wanted to be able to be there with them. And so I think the gratitude and the thing about what I'm what I've been able to provide for them, the lifestyle that I've been able to create, you know, the balance, I think, like coming back to that place of gratitude makes the hard part's easier, I think visualization to is really important. Like, where are you want your business to be at? It's like, in the beginning, I would even like just go through like, what do I want my workout and feel like what do I want? You know, like and I really tried to visualize everything's, you don't even know the how you see it, you know, like, what do I want the results being kind of like the next steps will show up for you. And I think I haven't done visualization as much lately, because I've been kind of in a place where I've been feeling good about things. But when I do get to a point, I really just I really visualize everything that I can, because then it starts bringing me into that as my reality. And then I started kind of acting as if so I think I think right, when you work at home, it's easy to get an A ride and stuff like that. So I think just for me, the movement, the gratitude, you know, even just like I don't have a commute, um, and the visualization of this is where I want to be next month, you know, even that two weeks, free in the month, that was something I started visualizing the beginning of this year. And then you know, I got to do it four times, which is amazing. Because during level of work that I have, so volume of work. Yeah, and speaking of visualization, like where, where do you see your business, but what are the goals? And what is the vision for your business as you continue? I mean, I keep raising the monthly income goal that I have. And it's it's kind of coming up with ways that I can do that. I mean, I, I do my own writing because that's what I'm selling. I'm selling my creativity and my intellectual property. I didn't want to In an agency where I have other people doing that, so it's like I have a finite capacity. And so I think that what I try to do is I think about, like, what are packages that people will pay for, you know, how can I add more value to something without necessarily adding a ton more work to myself so that I can, you know, raise rates, and it's just as I go to when I get more experience and more testimonials, and you know, more referrals than I can keep doing that. And so I think, for myself, I'm in a good spot. Uh, one thing that I was gonna mention, if I did real quick, a trap that a lot of entrepreneurs, including myself fall into is they think they have to do all the things. And they have to follow all the gurus and all the leaders, right, I had a coach at one time, that's like, okay, Nicole, you and Facebook group need to email list, you need a course, you need lead magnets, you need an email list, like, and I'm like my head, you need to be on all the podcast. And I was like, freaking out, I was trying to do all have things. And then I realized, that's how you keep getting sucked into new courses. And I had paid a lot for this one course. And I was like, I don't want to be selling in the DMS, what am I doing. And it really, I came back to a place I had to just like sit with it. And I said, here's the deal. The goal, being entrepreneur isn't easy, and everybody wants to do it. But the way that you become an entrepreneur is like going inside yourself and finding your own path. Nobody can tell you your path you need, you can find someone to help you when you know it, but you need to do it. So what is true for you, Nicole, and what's true for me is I didn't want a Facebook group, I didn't want an email list. I didn't want courses, I didn't want lead magnets. I didn't want to be out there like pitching I just wanted to write. And I just wanted to get like high ticket premium clients. And when I honed in on that everything fell into place. And I knew what I had to do. And I was able to sustain my business and I stopped chasing all the shiny objects. You know, and I find that there are people who are in perpetual coaching mode, I need a coach, I need a coach, you need a course, no, the problem is you need to sit down and like find your own course and vision for your business and then figure out what resources you need when you know you want to move to that next level. And I think that is what gave me the most peace of mind knowing that it's okay that I don't have a Facebook group. It's okay that I don't have an email list. Some people only want to sell to an email list. And that's cool. That's just not me. So I think when you you really have to understand your identity as a person as an entrepreneur and what feels good for you. And that's when you flourish, I think. Yeah, 100%, there's so many options out there to grow your business, which is great, because then you have so many options to figure out what's right for you. The problem is, is when you think you have to do all of them, you know, and I think most of us have fallen for that. For sure. I have two more quick questions. But before I do that, is there anything else that you have so much great knowledge and insight that you're sharing? Is there anything else that you wanted to share? Before we wrap it up? I think the one other thing is here's looking at my notes here. There was something real quick, something like one second here. Down here, okay. I just thought that, um, being an entrepreneur is not for the faint of heart, okay? Like it's not, it's easier to launch a business because I got my computer and I'm sitting at home, right? I don't have I don't have a brick and mortar location, I don't have employees, I don't need serve capital to, you know, procure a product or make product or any of that. So it's really easy to start. So a lot of people are doing it, but they're not. They're good at what they do. But they're not necessarily good at running a business. And I think that what people have to realize that there's a lot of risk, but there's a lot of reward, right? So you have to be prepared to fail over and over and not look at as failing, but just like, Okay, I'm just gonna keep doing it until I get to the point. So for me failure was that like, ultimate failure was not an option. I was like, I'm never gonna have a boss again. And I think, you know, you have to be really strong inside yourself. And this is where like, you know, a coach or masterminds can help. If you're starting out or to work your problems as a business owner, you know, to kind of get support from other people who are doing what you're doing. But I would say yes, there are some big risks, but the rewards are huge, like the financial rewards, and the money that you can make far can outweigh what you do in a job and that can provide wonderful opportunities for you and for your family. And I would say it's just when you're thinking about becoming an entrepreneur, just remember that there's two parts there's the part of like you're good at what you do is you have to be a good writer, you have to, you know, if that's what you're doing, you have to be able to deliver what you say or to deliver but you also need to know how to run a business and run it like that, you know? And so there might be like, where are you maybe lacking I need more training and writing I need more training and how to run a business. I think that those are important things to think about. When you're starting out, you know and find find resources and help to kind of like, get us to that next level. Yeah, for sure. And what I love about what you've shared today is that it can be leveraged for across industries, like you don't have to be a copywriter. You don't have to be a writer to implement, you know, these kind of tactics that you've shared today. So I think that that's, that's awesome, super helpful for the audience. Where can people find you online? They can visit me at strand writing services.com. Awesome. We'll direct people there. And my last question, this is kind of a fun one that we, that we ask is, if you could only listen to one music artists for the rest of your life, who would it be? And that's, that's tough. I'm gonna go with Guns and Roses. That's awesome. I'm from New Jersey. All right, I drive a couple of muscle cars. So, you know, that's what we're doing on the weekends. And that's top of my playlist I get there. I got a lot of favorites with music. But that was left kind of the first one that came to mind. And I think it's, I think it's a good one. I love it. I don't think that we've had the answers. And so what we do is I've created a playlist on Spotify, but entrepreneurial playlist. That's like, what everybody has said, over the years, so I'll go the residence for a share. That's awesome. Nicole, thank you so much for taking the time. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. Yeah, no, I love taking the time to talk entrepreneurship. I could talk about it all day. Honestly, it's like, so exciting to me, just as exciting as the day I started. And I think that's, you know, that's kind of how you know that you want to be an entrepreneur because it's just, it's like, always exciting. Yeah, as always, there's you never know what's gonna happen next. So, right and that and I love that too. I, you know, we talked about risk, but you have to kind of be somebody that's open to changes and stuff just happening and I love that, like, been a roller coaster, you know? Yeah. You never know what's gonna happen. Yeah. Thanks again, Nicole. Thanks for tuning into the Small Business Big mindset podcast. To keep the fun going. Check out our Facebook group start and scale an online business For even more free trainings and resources from fellow entrepreneurs. If you haven't already, head on over to muscle creative.com and click subscribe to join our email list for weekly updates. And if you've enjoyed this podcast episode, check us out on your favorite podcast platform to follow us and give us a review. As always be authentic bringing insane amount of value and keep crushing it