Injecting Humor to Connect and Sell

Erin Geiger: 0:02

Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast, where we dive into tactical strategies to grow your business and make an impact on this world. A huge part of success is keeping your mindset and vision on track. So this is a major part of our process. And this podcast. Let's do this. Hey, everybody, welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast this week, we have Sammy miles, founder of Cassius copy, and creator of automatically funny ATF in four weeks. Welcome, Sammy to the show. Hi, Erin, thanks

Unknown: 0:40

so much for having me.

Erin Geiger: 0:41

So super excited. You're one of my favorite people, one of my favorite entrepreneur entrepreneurs that I have met, and just grateful that our journeys have crossed in Europe, one of the funniest people I've ever known. So I'm so happy to have you on here. And you're here, just Yeah, incredible. So let's start with you. Of course, do you want to tell us a little bit about you your background and how you got started? Yeah,

Unknown: 1:07

so I was in corporate America for a very long time. And I had to give presentations to about 100 people at a time, like trainings and things like that. And it made me extremely nervous. So I decided early on that I was going to take a comedy class. So I went to the Comedy Store. This is when Sandy seashore was still alive and teaching. And I got started. They just like kind of threw you up on stage, and then you just did three minutes at a time. So I started doing that. And it really helps, you know, with the nerves and just like being in front of people. And so I was in that corporate job for a very long time, like eight years or something like that. And then I've always been inclined as a writer. So I was pregnant with my second daughter and I was having severe morning sickness. So I called in sick one day to work, and I still had to show up on Zoom, and present to five different VPs and I was literally muting myself and Bob into the trash can. And then like carrying on and continuing to present and I was like, Yeah, this has got to change. So I decided that I'm there to take my writing skills and start my own business and copywriting. So that was my first entrepreneurial foi a foray. Whatever the word is, you think I would know this writer. So I started my copywriting business. And as fun as it was to do copywriting, I quickly found that the funnest time for me was joking around with my clients and bringing more of their jokey sides out and you know, putting that on paper. And then also like, what if we added this little bit into your signature talk, little jokes here and there, and I just decided to run with that. And so I've been leading a program where I help business owners like punch up their assets, their copywriting assets, and their, their speeches and presentations. Just to make them funnier, and it's, it's great. It's so fun.

Erin Geiger: 3:36

So you're a genius for going to a comedy class when you're like, God, like frightened, you know, being in speaking in front of people, I would never have thought of doing that.

Unknown: 3:48

Exposure therapy baby.

Erin Geiger: 3:51

And it's pure genius. I love it. So even even that, it's just like, Wow, you're so far ahead of all of us. And then yes, the fact that you're helping people kind of like punch up their staff. It's so needed, especially post pandemic because everybody like we've discovered like, wow, okay, connection actually matters. And talking person to person actually matters. And so instead of having this dry material or content of like, very sterile, like this is what it is, you know, for you to come in and be like, Oh my gosh, can we get some personality in here? That's just incredible. So oh my gosh, so excited about that. So you introduced me to a phrase that I had never heard before, which is bizfluent Sirs, which I'm like, so in love now. So talk to us about comedy writing and talk to us about that. You coined that term. I have not heard it before, but

Unknown: 4:49

tell me I made it up.

Erin Geiger: 4:51

Another genius thing oh my god. So yeah, so please, please, please tell us help us. You know, to figure out our copy, I love to write to you But Good Lord, do I need help on like, making things? Funny, you know? Because that is not my strong suit at all. I mean, listen, I'm from New York. So I can do a one liner sarcastic thing with the best of them. As far as quality comedy, and that's so much. So could you kind of break that down a little bit for his comedy writing? And, and also explain to us how you came up with bizfluent? Sirs? Because I'm so enamored with that?

Unknown: 5:25

Well, yeah, no, it just describes like some of the people that I'm working with, like they have these massive audiences, and their audiences that are teaching other business owners business. And so does influencers made sense to me, because they're influencing businesses. But yeah, the first thing, if you want to become funnier, is kind of just stepping into more of your own personality and letting your humor shine just because, you know, people get really buttoned up, especially in like, the corporate culture, and, like talking business to business. And, and they forget that the other person, you know, they want to have a good time, too. But yeah, so the first place to start, I think, is to understand why you want to be funny. So to give you a little bit of background about how comedy works, historically, laughter developed in humans, before speech was ever a thing for communication purposes, like babies can laugh before they can talk. And it shows the other person that you wish to connect with them. So like, I have a 10 month old and she can't talk yet. But what she can do is she can laugh, and we like share little moments where we'll like laugh at each other. And she does that with her like two and a half year old sister too. And so if you can make somebody laugh in your audience, they're unconsciously identifying as somebody who wants to connect with you. Mm hmm.

Erin Geiger: 6:57

Yeah, I never even thought about that. You're right. Babies can laugh before they can really communicate, you know, through word. Interesting.

Unknown: 7:05

Yeah. So it's like, kind of taps into like that lizard part of your brain where you're like, Okay, I feel safe. And it also creates so much more engagement. Because when you use jokes, they're like, little problems to solve. Like, you have to use a lot of your brain to like, put it together to understand the intention. And sometimes there's like wordplay involved. Yeah, complex processing. So that'll drag people in a little bit more. There's also other social aspects to laughter so if you're, let's say, giving a TED talk, and you throw in a little joke at the beginning, everybody else who like wasn't paying attention, once they hear the laughter, they're gonna want to, you know, tune in a little more so that they don't miss the next joke.

Erin Geiger: 7:51

And it kind of like it could set you at ease as a speaker, but then I think it could set your audience at ease, too, right? Instead of being like, Alright, here I am for this training, or con, you know, whatever, you know, this conference thing that my work is making me go to, you know, like, who's going to speak to me now, you know? And so I think it kind of makes everyone just feel like, oh, okay, we can do this.

Unknown: 8:12

We're in this creates a little pattern interrupt. And actually, when you get people laughing, the feel good hormones, I don't remember exactly like, what the science is behind it. But it will there have been studies that show that it will help people to work for twice as long on a difficult task if they've been exposed to humorous stimuli right before?

Erin Geiger: 8:34

That's really good to know. Actually, does that work with kids? Make the laugh of it out? Sure. That's awesome. So okay, so the first step is like, Okay, why do you want to be funny? You know, because there's probably a time and a place for it, you know, or, you know, I'm sure, maybe you're of the opinion that it's like, well, most things could use a little spark of humor. And then know your audience, right? I mean, you got to figure out like, what kind of comedy you can actually inject, you know, like, how do people kind of figure that out? Like, where do you know, the line to stay?

Unknown: 9:07

Yeah, I think a lot of people tend to pull back more than they do, like, let it go. So I think if you're even thinking about that question, like, where is it appropriate? I think the answer is just self trust, like, take a step back and say, Why am I afraid to use it here? And then you can like, figure out if, if it's justified or not, I actually I was on a call, or I was about to give a talk. This was a couple of weeks ago, and there was one person where I was like, I don't know if they'll be comfortable with this kind of humor, but then I took a step back and I thought, if this joke alienates this person, then I don't even think I would want to work with them anyway. And that is often the case. I'd say more often than not there. There are some times where you might want to, if it really feels like it might be over the line, you might want to ask somebody else, if you just ask a friend, is this over the line? And, you know, they're of the opinion that it's not depending on how much you trust them, then you have your answer.

Erin Geiger: 10:19

And so how do you how do you get started working with somebody, you know, so what are what are their? Let's say, like, No, they've never kind of tried to inject, you know, comedy or personality into their work before? What are some of the first few steps you think that they should take?

Unknown: 10:34

I think that they should, first of all, start collecting their stories, like any stories that they have seen what they find funny about them, just start watching comedy, tap into what they like, and go from there. Like, the easiest way is to kind of craft a joke around your topic, using a formula from somebody whose material you do like, and then I think the easiest thing to do is to craft one opening joke for your talk or more, if you're just doing, like copywriting, it would be one joke in your welcome sequence. Just to start there. And yeah, just by looking at jokes that you found funny in the past.

Erin Geiger: 11:24

Okay, cool. And is it? Do you typically relate it to like, a whole story, you know, kind of, like, kind of draw the audience and whether it's written word or audio? Do you kind of like, attach the joke to kind of like a story? Or do you it's kind of like, now it's easier just to do a one liner? You know, like, how, cuz, you know, everyone likes different comedians, right? It's like, what do you suggest?

Unknown: 11:46

Yeah, that's a great question, I would say the easiest way is to either bridge the gap for your audience between something that's either universal to them to the topic at hand, or if you have like an intro story, and there are some funny details in that. That works just as well. But what I like to do with my clients is to have them watch the opening jokes of their favorite comics. And see how they bridge that gap from like, well, here we are, to their topic. So often, it's talking about something like the speaker before said, and just finding finding an ounce of humor in that.

Erin Geiger: 12:31

And do you help if they're speaking publicly? Do you sort of help them engage with the audience as well? Like, kind of make it more of a, a two way street? Do you know cuz then, some comics will, will do that, right? They'll like see someone on the audience or you know, that sort of thing? Or do you go you're like, that's not really, we don't do that. Yeah. So

Unknown: 12:51

for me personally, like I'm more of a writer type. So I like to stick to my script. But in my program, I do have like a guest comic come in to teach the art of dealing with like haters and hecklers. Because no thanks. For me. I'm just like, all I do is like, stick, like go back to the script. If I if somebody's like, throwing me a fastball.

Erin Geiger: 13:15

And then do you use, like, kind of visuals? Like, do you? Are you like a meme person? Like, do you to kind of teach people to, you know, incorporate those whether or not it's like a presentation or like an email that they're writing?

Unknown: 13:29

I definitely see the value in those I have to be reminded to use them personally. But I think that is an easy way that's low hanging fruit for a lot of people to inject humor is like, find a meme that you find funny. Put it in there, find a way to shoehorn it in

Erin Geiger: 13:47

it kind of like livens it up to you because like, I think after, you know, a few minutes of talking about one topic, especially if you're sitting there to speak, watching somebody speak at a conference, you know, your mind can start to drift. So injecting some humor throughout. It seems helpful, too. And so let's talk about it. You have a chorus of what is it a chorus that automatically funny AF in four weeks? Or is it Yes.

Unknown: 14:13

It's a core slash workshopping. Big.

Erin Geiger: 14:17

Okay, that makes Yeah, that would make sense that we have a workshop component. So automatically funny AF in four weeks love the title. Can you share a little bit about that and maybe give the listeners a little sneak peek and you know, a few things that maybe you teach in that course. And then of course, we'll have the link on the show notes and everything too.

Unknown: 14:37

Yeah. Let me pull up something about that. Just a second. Yeah, no, no.

Erin Geiger: 14:45

And I yeah, I love it automatically. Funny AF. I'm like, Oh, Dan, we all need to defeat and then within four weeks, I'm like, Yes, please. Sign me up. That's awesome. How many times people will try to force it to, you know, they'll try to force the funny does not work. So I'm so grateful that you have this. This court. Yes.

Unknown: 15:08

Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of yeah, just drawing on what naturally would come out of your mouth anyway. And then just yeah, just lowering the inhibitions just slightly. Yeah. So yeah, some of the things that I talk about is like your individual humor, DNA, and how you, you know, curate the inspiration that will actually make you funnier, because it is kind of a state of play that you want to be in in order to bring out the funniest stuff. And then we go over all of the aspects, and kind of workshop them together everything from like signature talks, guest teaching, sales, webinars, master classes, and podcasting, and then the copywriting aspects as well. So like injecting humor into welcome sequences, sales page, website, home in about page, and launch emails, and then also like reels and social media, and how to kind of make it sustainable. So you don't feel like you're always like trying to come up with new material, like figuring out what the lowest hanging fruit is for stuff that you're already talking about. And yeah, how to just tweak it to make it funny. Yeah. Now that's, like I said, What did you say?

Erin Geiger: 16:25

I'm just saying that super comprehensive.

Unknown: 16:28

Yeah, and then, like I was saying earlier, dealing with haters and hecklers. And then just, I have a couple of comics that I'm bringing into workshop with my people. And yeah, one of them has been on like Stephen Colbert, and like, all the late night talk shows and everything. And it's super fun.

Erin Geiger: 16:48

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, because like, social media is like a whole other thing, right? And so it sounds like maybe, do you have sort of best practices for social media or making a real you know, that you want to share just general best practices once like not giving away your secret sauce from your course. But just a few things that you're like, if you choose do one thing, when you're gonna be on social media, please do this. Or don't do this.

Unknown: 17:16

I would say create content without a filter. And then when you go back and edit, you can, you know, you can get feedback on what isn't isn't gonna lie with your audience. But I would say err on the side of just letting it all hang out. Before you edit, because, as you know, as a copywriter, you just kind of need to get everything out to get the gold nuggets that you can then edit down to like usable content. So from that perspective, one tool that I really like using is 750 words.com. To really like word vomit every single day. So for people who are less writers, I guess you can, you could use just like a video, or you know, whatever, however you video on your phone and just talk at it for just like, you know, five minutes a day. And you'd be surprised, like just talking about stuff that happened in the last day, you'd be surprised about how much of that is actually usable content? Mm hmm.

Erin Geiger: 18:25

Yeah, I kind of take two in that muscle. Yeah, it's similar. I tell people, like, look at the photos on your phone. You know, like, that's going to spark a memory of like, oh, yeah, when this happened last weekend, this happened a few weeks ago, like they're there, you know, so it's similar for this as well. Yeah, do you? Do you kind of have tips to help people like you went to a comedy class, and maybe going to you is the equivalent but like to kind of get people? I mean, you've got to have a lot of nervous, maybe people that are anxious coming to you, you know, that are just like I had a while, you know, how do you kind of get them to see that they can be funny in that and that it's okay to kind of inject their personality, you know, is there kind of things you get to that you make them like less anxious and more confident?

Unknown: 19:14

Yeah, well, I do. I do teach a little bit of breath work just to like calm the anxiety. But I do think that getting that like playful nature, like turned on has a lot to do with like, who's around you and the energy of the room. And that's kind of what my program provides. It's a lot of people just playing and having fun and just, you know, seeing what works throwing spaghetti at the wall and encouraging each other telling each other what they thought was funny about it. Like there's no negativity where we don't say like, You should have said this or whatever

Erin Geiger: 19:53

did you imagine? Before like, Oh, my God, I can't believe you just said that. Like what I thought we were supported. Yeah, that'd be hilarious. Yeah. It's like, I hope so. Yeah, no, that's awesome. And do you? Do you kind of see a trend like, with people in different industries? Are you kind of like, okay, well, this person is in this kind of business. So they should go down this avenue or this person's in this or do you? Are you like, No, it doesn't really matter. You're the industry, there's, this is just how it is.

Unknown: 20:26

It's, I would say it's less industry dependent, and it's more person to person, I would say the people that I work with, they're already kind of funny. They just want to know, what they can inject into their business. And I'd say most people are funny, if you don't have a funny bone in your body. And like, it just, it just feels like the opposite of your nature. Maybe that's just you, but you can lean into that. And the way to make it funny, I would say would be acknowledging that about yourself, that can be funny. But I don't tend to work with those people as much. I just noticed that all of my clients are funny. So I don't know. Maybe it's just because everybody's funny. I don't know.

Erin Geiger: 21:12

Yeah. And that actually is interesting. So who Who do you work with the most like, who would you say is mostly like you're the perfect ideal clientele.

Unknown: 21:22

Perfect, ideal clientele would be like, coaches, that are kind of doing a lot of teaching. Because one thing that I've noticed is that humor really helps with getting messages across. And it helps people absorb what it is without making it personal or like, it feels things feel less confrontational. And so that like teaching element is kind of a through line. Because teachers see the value of using humor to create engagement, and things like that.

Erin Geiger: 22:00

Yeah. Okay, now, I could see that. And so I'm curious, like, there's our listeners kind of range from like seasoned entrepreneur to those who are just starting out and everything in between. So, is there something like you went out on your own? You know, it's, I'm sure it was all ponies and rainbows. So it's like, is there like a key learning or like an insight that you could share for others wanting to go out on their own kind of like, start their their own business? Maybe it's like something that you're like, Oh, that's a lesson I learned the hard way.

Unknown: 22:38

Well, I have noticed. So for me, personally, I wouldn't necessarily recommend this path for everybody. But I've spent a lot of time trying to reflect more on am I enjoying what I'm doing, rather than Am I making the most money I could be making because I do see a lot of people that don't seem like a, you know, in our like entrepreneurial sphere, people that are chasing the money that don't seem as happy. And it's kind of a path for burnout. And actually, I was talking to one of my clients the other day who she said she would go through a burnout cycle every 18 months, she would just get completely burnt out. And she had to take a step back, she took a full six months off, because she had been making the money so she could afford to take six months off. And during that time, she decided that she was going to fire all of her clients, not all of them, but only work with the ones where she felt like she can fully be herself rather than be like completely buttoned up. And because of that she's like, like, purposefully injecting her humor into her business so that she doesn't burn out again, and she's loving her day to day a lot more. And so yeah, and I've had like a similar trajectory. As far as you know, I did leave a job because I was continually getting burnt out. And I I am willing to take the time that it takes to find my path in a way that, you know, lights me up and makes me want to continue doing what I'm doing even if it gets like hard.

Erin Geiger: 24:29

Yeah, no, I think that's something that a lot of entrepreneurs go through, myself included, you know, when I was going out on my own, I was like, Well, I have skills and all these different areas. So I will just do them all, you know, and it's like, what, no, don't do that. And so it's like, you just get burned out and you're like, just because I can do something doesn't mean I should do that. It really is just like honing in on like, yeah, what lights you up, that's a perfect way to put it and I think it's also very easy for people to I call it the billionaire syndrome, where you're just listening to all the billionaires talk to you about, like, how they run their businesses and what they're doing. And you're like, Well, it worked for them, it must work for me. And then you find yourself doing a kajillion different things I need to a group and I need a course. And I need a membership. And I need this, you know, and it's just like, any of all the things and you're like, why am I miserable? You know? And it's like, because you're not checking in with you, you know, and like, figuring out what you want to do. And like you said, you're chasing the money. So that's, that's something that Yeah, we all need to remember for sure. So I'm super curious. Like, where because you're the only one that I know, that really focuses on helping people inject the funny and you know, that sort of side of their personality into what, what they do whether or not because you probably helped both whether or not they're entrepreneurs, or they're working with a with a company, because everybody needs this help. Yeah, how do you like what, what do you see moving forward and your business? Like, what are your goals and visions as you build it up?

Unknown: 26:09

It's a good question. But to be honest, I am not very focused on what my goals are. Because I'm just like, in the day to day, I'm enjoying the work that I'm doing now. So I'm just hoping that it just kind of snowballs and, you know, takes on a life of its own, which it's been doing so far. And just like kind of following what is enjoyable. Yeah.

Erin Geiger: 26:36

So you're very intentional on the present. Essential? Yes, yeah. Now, that's great. Because there's something to be said for that, too. You know, because a lot of us are, like always thinking about the next thing. And it's like, Well, why don't we give attention to the current thing that we're building right now? So no, I totally get that. Where can people find you online, if they want to connect, get some of your, your wisdom and expertise and maybe work with you.

Unknown: 27:02

So I have a lead magnet, that is 10 tips to grab your audience by the funny bone. And if you grab that, you'll sign up, it'll sign you up for my email list, which is how I communicate mostly with my audience. And I can send you that link, or do you want me to say it?

Erin Geiger: 27:22

Yeah, either way, you can say it, and then we'll put it in the show notes. For sure. Yeah, grab your

Unknown: 27:27

items, by the way, but it's at high ticket humor.com forward slash bone.

Erin Geiger: 27:32

Nice. And it's high ticket humor. Is that your website that people should go do for other things do or just for that one

Unknown: 27:38

piece? Just for that one?

Erin Geiger: 27:41

Got it? No, that's awesome. Okay, cool. So we'll add that. And then we always ask this question at the end. My husband and I, he helps me produce this show. And we're just big music heads. And so we always want to know, if you could only listen to one music artists for the rest of your life. Who would it be? Beloved's? Wow, you're like on it. People are usually like, that's a jerk question. I don't know. Bill Evans. Okay. I don't know that. I know. Bill Evans. Well, kind of he's a jazz pianist. Oh, my God, my husband's probably like, how do you not know Bill Evans? Like he loves Yeah. He's like, slip by so embarrassed right now when he, when he's gonna be like, mixing this later. He's gonna be like, Oh, my God, like, really? I love that. But apparently, I didn't know what that means. Oh, that's so awesome. So on Spotify, we have a playlist and it's like, the our small business mindset entrepreneur playlist. And so we mix everybody's answers together and a playlist so you can kind of like, maybe get some inspiration from fellow entrepreneurs and what they like to listen to as well. So we'll add him on that. That'd be super fun. Sammy, thank you so much for taking the time today. This has been such an awesome conversation. Like I said, I've never talked to anybody. And we're almost 100 episodes on this show about this topic. So super interesting. So I really appreciate it.

Unknown: 29:03

Yeah, thank you so much. This has been fun.

Erin Geiger: 29:07

Thanks for tuning in to the Small Business Big mindset podcast. To keep the fun going. Check out our Facebook groups start and scale an online business For even more free trainings and resources from fellow entrepreneurs. If you haven't already, head on over to muscle creative.com and click subscribe to join our email list for weekly updates. And if you've enjoyed this podcast episode, check us out on your favorite podcast platform to follow us and give us a review. As always be authentic. Bring an insane amount of value and keep crushing it