Whether you're thinking about launching an e-commerce business or are actively building one, this episode with Jamey Warren is key. A musician through and through, Jamey harnessed that creativity and ambition in growing his online career. Back in high school in El Paso, TX, Jamey and our own Joey Ramirez marched proudly in the Coronado High School (go T-Birds!) marching band…and participated in some rowdy hijinks on the side (wink, wink).
Hear how this professional musician found a way to intertwine his passion for and skills in music to create a career helping others start their own business and progress in their musical journey.
If you could listen to one music artist for the rest of your life, who would it be? Curt Warren (his dad)
Where can people find you online?
Welcome to the Small Business big mindset Podcast, where we dive into tactical strategies to grow your business. And to make an impact on this world. A huge part of success is keeping your mindset and vision on track. So this is a major part of our process. And this podcast. Let's do this. Hey, Erin here. Welcome to the Small Business big mindset podcast. This week, we have Jamey Warren. He's an e commerce expert. He helps small business owners increase sales and profits. He's also founder of groove beds that they teach people how to record and produce music on their own. Very cool. Welcome to the show, Jamey. Hey, thanks for having me. So cool. We were talking before we started recording that Jamey is from Montana and they got like six inches of snow today. It is May as of this recording. I think that's that just blew my mind for a second because we're in Austin. I went for a run this morning. tank tops shorts. No. Base, like there are clouds in the sky. But it's in the 70s. So to have snow in May. Yeah, I'm dreaming for that kind of weather. Yeah. It's coming, Jamey. It's coming. So let's jump right in. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background? I will actually mention, Joey and Jamey go way back. Yeah, we've been friends for a long time. And we met in El Paso. Yep. music history with Jamey and band and you know, all through our, you know, when I was in junior high up high school. Yep. Junior High jazz band as band was so fun. Yeah, it was. All the bands were fun. And not to mention the after school activities that we had. Yeah, we would do the rollerblading basketball. Also remember that? Yeah. And then I think we think we played bastard ball to where it was like football and basketball where it was just full contact. Yeah. I guess it's okay to say that on the on the podcast. Yeah, I don't know if that's a bad word or a bad word really. Anyway, I'll jump into my background. It's pretty much centered around music, I mean, kind of grew up. Being as a musician for as long as I can remember, my parents are musicians, my grandparents, musicians were musicians. And I grew up playing saxophone through all the way through high school and into college and played sax in kind of a pop band, pop rock band after high school. And we made a CD. We had done some other cassette tape stuff before then, but I fell in love with the recording studio when we made a CD. And so I decided I wanted to learn how to make records. And I went to the Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences in Arizona, and studied recording engineering for about six months and to graduate, you have to do an internship. And to for me, I also had a passion for the outdoors, and didn't want to live in New York, Nashville or LA. So I chose Boulder. And because I had been there with Joey and my other good friend, john Oh, and we just kind of fell in love with the place. And it seemed to be the next closest thing to have some kind of musical center in Denver. But yet I could be in Boulder with all the hippies and you know, the outdoors. So pack my bags and moved to Boulder to try and find an internship. And that was a challenge on its own. But I eventually landed one in a little basement studio on Pearl Street. And next door to the studio was a company called grace design, who manufactures really high end recording equipment. So I was interning at the studio and then not getting paid anything. So I got a job part time working for Greece design back when, you know, minimum wage type situation was grim. They paid better than that. But it was still just part time job for me living in Boulder is tough. And but I got a taste of the electronic world. And I stuck with those guys. And it gave me a full time job and the company grew eventually it was owned by two brothers still is emin and Michael grace are the sweetest guys that I know. And they just kind of took me under their wing and let me grow with their company and taught me all kinds of things about audio and electronics and business. And so we grew that company together for seven years or so. There were probably 20 employees. After that time, and we built a lot of products together and designed I didn't design them Michael grace did but he taught me some of those basics of circuit board layout and product design and such. And then I just kind of think I got well during that whole process. I was also playing in bands, took up bass on the side, did a bunch of recording with folks in various recording studios and The mix of things, but then I kind of got tired of the traffic in the Denver area, trying to go skiing and whatnot. So I had been coming up to Montana to fly fish every summer. And just thought, Man, I should move there. So I pretty much sold everything I had and jumped in my truck and drove up here and crashed on my best friend John's floor and found kind of a bunch of odd jobs for a while. But eventually, I landed a job at headroom, headphone COMM And from there, I started just as a sales engineer, or sales associate, I guess. But quickly got into the product side of things and started helping fixed products and then provided suggestions and then eventually designed products and just grew within this company. And that the times with headroom was owned by started by a guy named Tyler hertz, since he was a genius. Audio at the time, nobody was really doing headphone stuff. And he just nailed it on the internet. And so, but the company was started with equity funding. And by the time the economic collapse kind of came around in 2008, nine, the company was doing really well. But everything just kind of started falling apart at that point. And eventually kind of took a downturn and, and the investors came brought in some consultants, and they ended up getting rid of the founder tile who was the idea guy, and you know, kind of kept the business going. So I, I was recruited back to try and save that company and see what we could do. But it was a challenge with investors and just, you know, previous business and the way things go. So we held on as long as we could, but kind of eventually got beat out by other competitors and Amazon and we ended up selling the domain to folks that own headphones, it was a confusing situation, headphone and headphones calm, were kind of two different headphone sales at one point. And so we would often have different phone calls about wrong customer. So that's kind of a long story to get to that point. And then I was at a loss, I had, you know, kind of just gone through Washington, kind of one of my favorite companies go out of business and wasn't sure what to do take it. And so I took a job as a software developer. I guess in that process, I should say I learned a lot about web design. So I started working at headphone Comm. And right away, my mind was blown at how you could sell millions of dollars of stuff on the internet. And so I went home, bought a domain name. And I started learning how to code not really code, right HTML, started using, you know, Zen cart and all these early ecommerce packages and Magento or whatever, and just pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to get all that stuff to work together. And eventually, headphone comm was built on a custom PHP platform. And it was just kind of crumbling in front of us. And our engineers had left and gone on to better jobs. And so I was faced with the position of just kind of had to eject with a parachute. And at the time, Shopify was just coming up. So I looked at that. And I had a couple more weeks with my developer and he helped me write some scripts to get the products out of our customer site. And we migrated to Shopify kind of emergency and it worked, you know, it, turned it on and kept getting orders the next day. And that's kind of when I really was turned on to Shopify as a platform. And so I started using it more frequently. Use it for my own business, I tried to start a little Pro Audio business, and I just didn't really didn't really give it my all I guess. And I didn't really have a good vision for it at the time. So it was just kind of working a couple jobs side by side. But eventually, you know, I just really liked Shopify platform. And so I started trying to build sites for other folks, and try and utilize what I had learned to try and help some of the local people who need a site. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at today, well, worked for a few Shopify theme companies as a support person after headphone comm just had a variety of jobs, and including the web design stuff, software engineering, and then support for Shopify. And so now, I've been doing a lot of soul searching and trying to figure out what's next for me. And I don't I don't know that I could work for anybody. For my next day, that day job, currently software for a software company but I really need something that I can sink my teeth into. And still my new project group buds. It's not really a project, it's business. But I'm still in the stages of figuring out how do I add value back to the folks that I'm trying to serve? Before, I used to just try and it was kind of more about me, like I was gonna start an audio store and sell stuff, so I could profit, but we don't really need another guitar store or any of that stuff. So this has been trying to figure out how can I give back to the community? What is it that I'm trying to do? Who am I trying to help? And how can I do that best? So that's where I'm at now. And started a podcast to try and figure that out. So I'm just asking all of my musician, friends, where is that they have troubles? And how can I help them? Whether that's via recording or promotion? or building a site? or learning about recording? No, I love that. It's like, you know, I feel like a lot of us think it's going to be like this linear progression, you know, of our life of like, we're gonna start this career ready to go here. But it's not it's like a whole, like, the knot of yarn. You know, that takes us in different directions. So. And then we learn a lot of along the way we learn not only skills, but we learn about ourselves, and like kind of where where we want to go in our life. And I'm, I'm curious, because with all the entrepreneurs that I speak to COVID seems to have impacted their journey in some way. Maybe they learned a new skill, or they started a new business. So I'm curious, in your situation, how has it impacted? Like, did group bys come out of that? Or was that before COVID or, or you know, how has COVID-19 kind of impacted where you are, it's definitely impacted me and kind of brought me to where I am today, I think it kind of it kind of did come out of it, I had grew buds as a domain name in my stack of domain names. And I've just been whittling it down trying to minimalize or, you know, simplifying my life, and figuring out, you know, what I really care about. So I've gotten rid of a bunch of that. And, you know, when COVID just kind of first started, I, like most of us, we didn't really know what was gonna come up with it. And, you know, you think, Well, I better do something of this time. But it's not that easy, necessarily. But I dove back into music, I had kind of gotten out of it, and was taking a break from the music, business and industry and thought maybe I would just try and do that. I don't know, on the side or something. But it just keeps calling me that's just in my blood. And that's what I'm supposed to do. So I couldn't ignore that. And like I said, it just, I kind of did some soul searching of what what is it that I'm actually good at? And what do I know? And try to be honest with myself and figure out how could I help people? And so that's, that's, that's where it came from group buds. Really? I don't know, I think I kind of shoehorned the idea into the name and vice versa, to be honest, but as I develop it, it just seems to kind of come together more and more. And it's, it's ultimately, it's my personality and voice. And I guess what I believe in this that's coming out, so I'm just trusting that it's gonna work at some point. Well, I think it's a great idea, because it's, you can do it, you're teaching people how to record and produce music, I'm assuming they can be anywhere, right? Are you doing it online, mostly? Sure. Whether that's through a zoom call, if we want to schedule an hour just to talk about a DA w or signal flow, or how you know, if it's first time for you, you just need some advice to get started. Or I also work with a group of guys in town here, there's a studio called sound color studios. And it's a kind of like a cooperative. So you can join as a member and pay a monthly rate and then you have access to this recording studio place. And so there's a lot of young kids that just want to know stuff. And so the guy down there, Michael boys, he does a lot of teaching, but he recently just had a kid and he's kind of getting out at night getting out of engineering, but doesn't have as much time for that. So there's certainly a little bit of time in the studio of just kind of hands on. That's more recent, as we're all getting vaccinated. Um, you know, one thing Jamie that I've noticed that you were talking about was you getting into the technical and my web web designing and and working on Shopify and figuring out PHP and so forth. Um, you know, my background is technology ever since, you know, I don't know how long we moved to California. But it's interesting, as I've been meeting more and more people that are in technology that I find out are musicians. And it's just funny because I think it's something about the brain The way like coding or figuring stuff out on the computer is similar to like music and the way it flows and the way you get something at the end. And I think it's like our brains the way we have to look into dynamics and notes and rhythms, and feeling, and then coming off with something at the end. And I just feel like it's something to do with that, you know, and also math. I mean, you know, I'm not great in algebra, but I could count rhythms and I could get that part, right. It just feels like that. It's also similar to technology. So it just feels like it flows. It's just interesting that you were bringing that up how you got into that. Fourth, that's pretty cool. I've thought the same thing, Joey, I've noticed it a bunch that a lot of my musician, friends are kind of software engineers, or get into coding, I think it's maybe the problem solving. And also that, like you said, that the feeling that you get after you put a lot of work into something and you can see the satisfaction of the end. You know, my my greatest moments in life. And one of them is being in that big old marching band that we were in playing the music that we did, yeah, and having 200 people out on that field and having it sound like a concert band, it was just so powerful. And I think that's the same with like, you know, web design or software development, you've got a group of people or if it's just yourself, you've put a lot of effort into it, that kind of finally comes to fruition. That's funny, you mentioned that. I was just telling Aaron, yesterday, I went to go pick up my 14 year old, he starting High School and he was in like a, like a pre band, starting marching band. And I went and, you know, got there a little early, and I parked in the parking lot, and I could hear I'm playing and this is 400 and something students, and they were playing, you know, part of their piece, and they're playing the school song and it Jamie just brought back all those like emotions and those chills, like knowing he's gonna be able to experience that that was more of what I was, like, that's so great that he's, he's gonna be able to experience this. And it just and their school is similar to ours, they won the national champions in 2019. of marching band in the United States. So he has a high bar school. So just great. And I told my telling Erin, I was like, on Friday, when I when we go to that concert, they're going to give us I know, I'm going to be one of those parents crying. You know, I just got to hold me back. But yeah, it's interesting. That's, that's one of the feelings that I it's hard to come by, you know, marching band with that many people behind you. And, and playing out together. Yep. It's very rare that I get the hair on the back of my neck standing up like it did then. And you know, it's happened for me musically, a few other times, but I can honestly say I don't think it has ever really been as big of an impact as it was then. And maybe that's just kind of like, you know, the first time you do drugs or have sex or whatever. Yeah, yeah. greatest thing ever. But yeah, I know. I love listening to the stories, you know, that Joey will tell if your guyses time back then and then seeing him watch, you know, our kiddo likes bout to start High School and and then just, we didn't know it when we moved here that his high school was one of the top bands and then now like you said in 2019, to the National Grand champions like us, you know, and it's like, it's crazy. We just kind of like, oh, wow, I guess our high school is really good. So it's a very competitive High School in all areas. But But yeah, so that's, it's gonna be interesting. It'll be interesting ride, you know, when he officially starts in the fall. So I'm curious on a couple of things, cuz I knew we could talk about your guys's music forever. But I was curious, like, you had mentioned Shopify and so like, what if there are people listening who were like, okay, Jamey's inspiring me, I want to start my own, you know, site, our business based upon Shopify as a platform. Are there like a couple of steps that you recommend that they take or you know, kind of things that you learn like love working with Shopify? Sure. I mean, Shopify has tons of resources out there, you can really just get lost in their blog posts and what have you. But the platform itself is super easy to get us going on. So you just go sign up for a free trial. And you've got I think, 14 days usually. But you could set up a site in just about a day. I mean, the platform walks you through kind of the essentials that you have to configure. As soon as you go sign up for the free trial, you're given access to your new site. And it just kind of steps you through some of the essentials. You could set up a product and I would say you know, just choose a free theme. Choose one that you like if you do want to purchase a theme because you want it to look great. Right off the bat then I would say Just stick with one of the themes in the official Shopify store. And I'll give a shout out to the archetype themes guys who I worked for, before they build some of the fastest and best performing sites I've seen, or themes. But really, the hardest part is selling something. So you know, don't get bogged down in the design or the theme, or even the logo, I mean, really, you got to figure out how to reach your audience, the first thing I would recommend is putting a product on there and try and get somebody to go and buy it. Whether that's, you know, linking to it from your Facebook page, or if you've got a group of people that you think you're going to be able to service, sending it out to them in an email. But, you know, just get started and try and get your first sale, I think is the best advice I could give there. Because I see too many people, including myself, spinning their wheels on design and stuff before they even can find a customer. Now, I agree, I think so many people are like, well, I need to, well, then they want to do all the fun, shiny stuff, you know, it's like, all I need a logo and my guy gotta get my brand colors, and you know, all of that. And it's just like not, you don't really just pick something, like move on, you know. And so and I think that's, you know, part of it, especially if you're because we're more service based, but if you're a product based company, then it's like any company, you got to validate your idea, before you get going to make sure that it's a sustainable, profitable business idea. And not just like, you're passionate about it, because something that you're passionate about doesn't always translate into an actual profitable business. The part of that is like, can you get people to buy it, you know? And so are there certain things that are like, Okay, this really worked for me, like, was it social media was an email or, you know, how did you kind of get your stuff out there? Or when you helped others, like, what did you kind of see as like kind of the biggest trend to kind of get, you know, traffic to your stuff. I think the biggest key there was having something that's truly unique, and something that how you can differentiate from your competitors. You know, I've learned the hard way, selling retail that you just can't compete with Amazon selling the same boxes that they have. So you've got to either take that box that they're selling, and package it up with another box or another thing, so and provide maybe some service with that, so that people have a reason to buy from you or you got to develop your own product that's different. I guess, in the service industry, you know, you could think about your competitors. And so maybe they're charging by the hour or focusing on a certain niche, you just really have to kind of find a way that that you're different. Because no amount of advertising is going to kind of fix that if you don't really have figured out your value add and your value proposition upfront. So then once you figure that out, I think it's easier to find your audience and go from there. So I don't think there's kind of a simple answer, like Facebook ads, or Google or SEO or any of that, you really got to figure out what it is you're trying to who you're trying to sell to or service and what's different about it. And then from there, you can go find, find those people, I'm so glad you're bringing that up too. Because Another thing I think people skip over is like, they don't know who they're talking to. Or they make these huge assumptions, you know, about oh, well, my product or service is needed because of xy and z. And it's for this person, and they don't actually talk to those people to make sure that that that is their ideal client, and that this is a useful thing for them. And so they kind of just start writing, copy, and messaging, and just throw it out there and then are like, why isn't anybody finding me? or Why? You know, like, why am I not connecting? And it's like, well, he didn't do the work, you know, to figure out exactly who your ideal client is, what messaging resonates, what their pain points are, what you know, whatever it is, or how your product or service like fulfills a need or helps them because it could be a fun product, maybe it's jewelry, and you're like, well, jewelry isn't gonna like, it's not a pain point, you know, but it's like, sure, but like, how, you know, does it help their confidence? Does it just help them feel good? You know, what, it's just fun, like, whatever it is, and identifying Okay, what, you know, demographic? Am I going after? What are their interests? Where do they shop? What are they, you know, what are their world beliefs, like, get really kind of granular in knowing who they're talking to. So I'm glad that you bring that up, because I just feel like that's one of the things that it's not, again, super shiny to like, sit down and like write down exactly like okay, think about, okay, exactly who am I? Who am I serving here, you know, and doing the work and actually asking the questions and talking to people that you think Are your ideal clients and make sure you're going down the right path, though? Yeah, yeah. You know, I gotta say, I don't have the answers, either. I'm constantly refining that my own personal messaging or pitch or approach, I guess. Yeah. So just kind of keep on digging in to really figure out what that is. No, I agree. And I think it's ever changing, you know, especially with COVID. You know, I think that, you know, even if you figured it out, because this is who I'm serving, it's like, Okay, then COVID hits and the needs evolve, you know, and so and how you speak to them evolves. And it just, you know, how you message people now could be completely different than what you how you measured them in early 2020, early 2019. So, yeah, I totally agree on that. Yeah, so said, what has worked for me has been SEO, once I figure that out, somewhat, like, once I have an idea. Because you can put your spin on it, and rank organically for kind of the local area for your term pretty easily, you know, if you just really target in on what is it what it is, what it is you're trying to sell, and who you want to reach, then, you know, you can build that site that has those keywords, you can start placing those Facebook ads and targeting those particular type of people and get the feedback on whether it's working or not. So and then, you know, just SEO for me, that's, that's where I focus, because I just feel I get the most return on my investment, whether it's time, it's mostly just time for me. Yeah. And do you feel like it's easier now with SEO, I felt I feel like when search engine optimization was a first thing, it was like this monster, you know, and it was like, you had to get SEO, you had to get people that like, had experience in it and knew exactly, you know, how to get it on the page and the queue all this stuff. And it's like an h1, like, what is happening, you know, and so, but now, do you feel like it's a little easier, like people build off of a platform like Shopify or something that they it's more kind of, in there, you know, and like any person can really dive in? Absolutely. All the basic stuff are covered, right, like making sure the tech part is is done in Shopify, I mean, you can kind of mess it up with use of apps and things like that. But Yep, all the tools are there for you to easily access, and it's really about creating great product or content has, you know, it's not about a trick, or, you know, playing with the keywords or that that so much anymore. I mean, you want to know who the target audience is, and kind of string some of those in there. But that happens naturally, when you're really talking to the people that you want to talk to. And so if you if you are an expert in some type of field and can write an article that covers all of the details of that, say your, you know, roofing company, and you can create a little post that helps the person that's looking for a new roof understand why they would want to decide between asphalt or steel or something like that, for example. You know, it's real simple. You just, especially locally, you're not competing against big national companies that have years of traffic. So that's interesting to me to be able to, to get that kind of traffic easily. Yeah. So you've had so much experience so many different yet related areas, which is great. And you have a lot going on now. And you said you're kind of soul searching, figuring out what's next. So do you have a kind of like routines in your life that maybe help you figure that out? or help you have business or personal success? Like some people journal workout, meditate, play music, you know, is there a thing that you kind of incorporate? Sure, obviously, you play music, but that's not really part of that. Lately, journaling, for me has been a little over a year ago, I really dove into the artists way, a book about, you know, journaling, and how to kind of recover your inner writer. And that the main premise of that is to just write every day, just a short, brief minute of time in 15 minutes, or something like that. And it took me a while to catch on and try to miss some days here and there. And it was hard to kind of work through it. But it's turned into just a habit that happens for me. And I still there will be times when I'll skip a couple of days, or maybe even a week. But I just feel that calling back to me. And when I do. It just really helps me get all of those ideas out to where I'm not just thinking about them during the day. I start to kind of organize them and I got a ton of field note notebooks and I you know, he used to be posted but I got to keep it a little bit more in one spot. And then actually, the journaling I do digitally mostly on an iPad, I just wake up and sit on my coffee and spend 15 minutes and that kind of has come from my desire to try and write songs more But I don't write songs I do that I'm just spitballing You know, sometimes a story will come out, sometimes it'll just be my thoughts about group buds or, or about my day job or anything like that, I try to lean on the creative side of things. But when I do have those feelings, I just get them out there on the page, whether it's a business thought, or something that I'm frustrated with, or, you know, something want to change. And let's see what else. At lately, I've just been really diving into trying to figure out what my real core values are. Yeah, and that's can, that's can be a long journey. When you really sit down with it, but I, yeah, I kind of teach people the same thing to where I'm like, just sit down and write, the best way to get better writing is just to do it. And I think a lot of people have this sense of like, Well, I'm not a writer. And it's like, don't just take get the idea. It's not the mindset we want, you know, and it's just like, I don't care what it is, take a few minutes every day, and just like write doesn't have to be does have to make sense. It can be fragments, like I don't care, you know, just get it all out there. And then some folks that are like leveraging email or social media, you know, they're like, I don't know what to write, I don't know what to say. And I'm like, if you're just like, writing every day, even if it makes no sense, you'll be surprised if you go back and look at that content, you'll be like, oh, there's an email in there. Because I remember that memory, and I can tie it to what I'm doing in my business, you know, that sort of thing. So it can actually be quite valuable. You know, even when people think that it's like, you know, stuff that's like, doesn't nobody would want to hear to know, triggers, it triggers your, your writer brain when you do that in the morning. Yeah. And I would I got a timer right here, I just do it to 10 minutes, I set my timer. I do that, yeah, I pick a word and I write about a word. That's it. It's called object writing in the songwriting circles. So unless I have something to get off my mind, I'll just pick a word. And I'll write about that. And oftentimes, it'll lead me to some story, it might have been about the past, but just doing that for 10 minutes, and then shutting it off. And then later on in the day, you know, it keeps my mind open to those phrases and ideas, and I'm more apt to write them down. And, you know, explore them further. Yeah. No, that's great. Thinking about a word and writing about I love that too. And so once you kind of look to the future, what you know, I know not everything's concrete, but like what goals or visions Do you kind of have percolating in your head my, my big dream goal is to have a bed and breakfast recording studio down in Paradise Valley here. So you know, five or 10 years from now, but in the interim, I are, I think, really just ironing out. Simplifying what I have to offer, the, the musical folks around me that I'm trying to serve with grew buds, whether that's really diving in on the learning aspect or, or different course on how to do that. But also having a still, I still have that store idea in the back of my mind, and I want to have the coolest music store on the planet. So that's really, that's the also the big goal. And I see the studio and the music store living together. Now, I love that I think we need more music in the world, you know, because you see it, we're lucky where we are because it still is a big part of the schools where we are, but I feel like you start seeing the arts and music sort of get like, pushed to the side. So I love that what you're doing incorporates that even with your bed and breakfast, it's like music is integral, you know to that. So that's so great. Yeah. Where can people find you online? You can find me at Jamey Warren calm j M. EY, Warren, or groove buds, not calm as well. Awesome. And so to wrap it up, because you know, obviously we're big on music over here we ask a question. We think it's fun. People think we're jerks for asking it. But if you could only listen to one music artists for the rest of your life. who would it be? That's easy, my dad. Oh, I love that. Tell us about your dad. He's a jazz guitarist who was a professor at UTEP for over 30 years. He's just amazing jazz guitarist so I could only pick one it would be him. Wow. That's incredible. How lucky that you are to have that in your life. That's amazing. We typically see people struggle and squirm in their seats. We ask that question there. Like, how can I pick when that's not nice? I was just about to say sorry, Jamey, but then you answered so quick. That's awesome. And I'm glad your dad is putting stuff online. I saw those a couple of videos that he put that you posted. And I was like, Oh, I should do it. Tell your dad do it more often. Yeah, he wants to he keeps coming over wanting to record I have a few videos on my phone that maybe I should upload for him. But I think it's, it's challenging, you know, technology for a jazz guitarist like him. If I remember how much technology he had just recording stuff that your guys how your house, you know, back when we're younger, I remember seeing all that and think he even had like a computer. Back when nobody really had computers, you know, with MIDI and computing. They remembered all that stuff. vivid memories. And here, that's how I got into it. So if people want to hear hear what your dad does, is there somewhere that they can like where do you upload the stuff? Oh, he has a couple albums out there. I don't I don't know. To be honest. Kurt Warren CRT. He recorded a CD of Christmas songs of his if anybody wants one. Just send me an email Jamey. Jamey Warren calm and I'll mail you one. I got a couple 100 in my garage. I'm trying to get rid of school. Well, we definitely want one. sent your info, but it's on the list. Yeah. Very, very cool. Well, Jamey, thank you. Thank you so much for chatting with us today. It was great. Not only to for you guys to catch up a little bit, but I think we've all learned so much in this conversation. So I really appreciate you taking the time. Yeah. Thank you, Jamey. Great to see you guys and catch up and I appreciate being on the show. Thanks for tuning in to the Small Business big mindset podcast. To keep the fun going. Check out our Facebook group start and scaling online business For even more free trainings and resources from fellow entrepreneurs. If you haven't already, head on over to Muscle Creative calm and click subscribe and join our email list for weekly updates. And if you've enjoyed this podcast episode, check us out on your favorite podcast platform to follow us and give us a review. As always be authentic. bring an insane amount of value and keep crushing it