Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast, where we dive into tactical strategies to grow your business and make an impact on this world. A huge part of success is keeping your mindset and vision on track. So this is a major part of our process. And this podcast. Let's do this. Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast this week, we have Cheryl Rarick. She is the anti hustle business strategist for automations. And she's a funnels Pro, I think we all need a lot of simplification. And let's do things anti hustle, like welcome Sheryl to the show.

Thanks for having me here.

So I would love to learn a little bit more about you and your background, how you got started, because you and I haven't chatted about that before. So I'm super curious.

Yeah, well, let's see how I got started in funnels and automation is when I got into online business, what I noticed in especially in the coaching and the online course spaces, it was a massive overconsumption of learning. And then a big gap with implementation. So many new online entrepreneurs were taking all the courses and joining all the groups, but then there's this gap in implementing it. And when I dug in a little further, it mostly boils down to, to a lot of tech overwhelm, like there's a huge learning curve, and how to do all of these things that we have to do when we try to do business online, you can't become a marketer and a copywriter and all the things. But implementation is a real struggle. And then it's super noisy out there. So everyone has a different opinion on how to do things. But then very few are actually showing people how to do it and get it done and move forward. So I've seen inside a lot of businesses, and I truly believe that automation is the great equalizer. So it's something that everyone can use, it's like having an assistant working for you 24/7, it can be authentic still and intimate. Depending on how you how you use it. And it can even it'll do a better job of following up with your people than you can. So it's definitely something that gives entrepreneurs new or experienced a lot of breathing space in their business. And so how I came to just to be the, the automations tech nerd is, well, I've always been a nerd Aaron. So I grew up with a dad who used to build computers. And I learned MS DOS as a kid as sort of just a natural talent. And so I feel like often I'm like that translator between the old school marketing and tech side of the industry. And then the, you know, the normal people running businesses online and selling their knowledge online. So I've sort of feel like I can bridge that gap a little bit.

Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, I mean, I will raise my hand here and be like, I have been one of those entrepreneurs where I'm like, I just want to learn, learn, learn, learn, learn.

It's my favorite. It's my toxic trait. It's my favorite procrastination technique, actually, oh, I just need to learn more about whatever that I'm not getting. Anyways, exactly.

It's like,

I'll do it. We all do it. Yeah,

it's like execution. What? No, we're still learning our craft here. That's awesome. So when you and I were chatting earlier, you wrote, so I'm all about email marketing, there is a camp that says emails are dead. I don't believe that, I think that you could still connect with your audience very well, and in a in an intimate way. And it's more intimate than social media. And I think it's a great way to connect to your to your audience. And so you actually have a mini course on that topic called WTF are tags.

I am seeing email all day every day. And you know what the data backs that up? Yeah. 100%. And the more you put into email marketing, the more you get out of it. And the problem is, is it's a lot of people, it's a hot mess in the back end. 100, right. And there's some foundational things when it comes especially to automating your emails that people miss, and it just makes things harder in the long run. So some simple, simple strategies can help with that.

I know for sure, and I think that tagging and then we're going to dive deep listeners into this because I think that that's something that a lot of people don't even use, right so it's there it's just it can it plays in so well it's automation freeing up your time to do other things while still dedicating your your emails to specific groups of people. So get ready, guys. Cheryl's gonna tell us like what are these tags that you speak of? Why you should care? Oh, and I love it because you even have it boil down to like there's like three types of tags that she's going to go and

you were all one of them. maybe even more than one of them. I've been all three.

It's gonna be I am like so intrigued right now. So let's dive in. Well, I guess we should start at the beginning, right? Like for, what are tags? And what can they do for us? And let's just go from there, Cheryl, let's do it.

Yeah, let's start where people that don't know what we're talking about. Today tags, if you don't know, we're gonna start with some industry jargon, because when it comes to email marketing platforms, they all use different jargon. And just to make it a little harder for everyone, some people, some platforms call it tags, some call it segments, some have lists, some groups, some have, I don't know, there's, they call them different things. But what we're talking about when I'm talking about tags, is a simple and intuitive way to sort your contacts based on their interests, preferences, and any special attributes that set them apart from each other. And then they can also be used to trigger automation. So they can also be a functional tool, as well as giving us information about our subscribers. And so I like to, you know, maybe showing my age here, but I come from, you know, when we weren't all online doing everything. And I've worked in our office, right and administration in the corporate world. And I like to think of tags as sticky notes on my files on my Manila file folder files of my clients or my contacts. Tags are like those color coded sticky notes that helped me keep track of who this person is the actions they've, you know, things phone calls we've had, or emails we've had with each other things they've done. And so in my mind, it's like, that's how we keep track of who is who and how they can be unique and special to us, even at scale.

That's great. And do you mind giving a few examples of what a tag might be as far as grouping your list as well as the automation aspects?

Yeah, let's get into that. But first, maybe to clarify, we could define what is a segmentation like what are segments and segmentation because there's a bit of confusion between tags and segments. And that's that industry jargon again, right? segments are the process of dividing your market of potential buyers into groups based on their characteristics. So that groups people together, who will respond similarly to marketing strategies or to share or that share similar traits or interests or needs. And so that's different than tags, because tags are just a way you can segment your list. So segmentation is the strategy. And tags can be a tool used to implement it. So but they aren't only used for segmentation, they're also something that can do actions inside of your automation as well. So they can, you can use them in your back end admin to organize your work. You can track people's engagements collect data on marketing campaigns. And so they can actually trigger other automation to start based on people's actions as well. So they're a little bit segmentation is the strategy takes are one of the tools that we can use to do that. Right. So what was your question? Sorry, the three my favorite kinds of tags.

No, I wanted to really, I think we were still at that foundation. Because some people are piled, like you're saying words.

It's a lot of words. So if we

could just give them the audience, just a couple of examples of like, what a tag could be used for, like you can tag people who've downloaded a certain piece of content, and, you know, and then how you sample of using tags and automation. And then we can get into the three types of tags. So I'm super curious about that.

That's my favorite. Okay, so my three favorite uses for tags. One of the easiest ones is to be a low key stalker. So you can tag people when they like, when they join your list, like how they joined your list, they got this lead magnet, like where they came from how they joined your list in the first place. Anything that they've clicked on, you can tag they clicked on link to x sales page, so you can sort of know what they're doing with your business so that's one of my favorites so you can be a low key stalker by just adding tags throughout your automation so that you know what people have done you know, you look up you want to look someone up and then you can see on their file oh that well they found me through this lead magnet and then they took this course and then they you know they clicked on this link in an email and so now you know who you're talking to. Right You know, the background. So that's one of my favorite uses. Another one is to be a traffic light. So that is using it to start and stop automations and so tags I should clarify for anyone brand new. They're added within your within your emails and within your system. So you This isn't anything you're doing manually, you set it up one time, right when you set up what you're doing. And when you think through your strategy in advance of all the information you might want to know, and then you can sort of build it in, and then you don't have to think about it again. So this isn't something you need to do regularly, you just need to sort of think through the strategy when you build a new automation. I don't want to overwhelm everyone like, Oh, my God, what do you mean a traffic light? Do I have to be turning things on and off? No, that is a good point, my system, now you set it up, and then it runs. But I like to use tags to start and stop. So somebody signs up for a lead magnet, I might use a tag at the end of delivering that to start a welcome sequence or get to know you sequence or I might, maybe they've gone through that maybe it's time to sell them something and send them to an evergreen funnel. So you can do a lot of traffic control with tags. You don't have to do a lot of systems. You don't have to use tags to do that. But some some systems you do. But it can be one of the ways you can do it. And I like it because it's very visual, and I can see what's happening within my automations. And then my third favorite is to act as a bouncer and check everyone's ID. So I build in tagging conditionals when people at the start of my automations. So that's checking a lot of systems, we'll call it the if when, if one thing can be confusing if when boxes in automation. So that's just a way of saying, hey, what tasks does this person have? And should they even be here? Should they even be getting these emails? Because it's, we've all been on people's lists. And we've probably all done it at one point where someone will sign up for something and get the welcome sequence. And then they'll sign up. You know, we have super fans, they sign up for all the things and then they get like double the emails they've already gotten. And they're like, Oh, that's so embarrassing. How do I stop doing that? And you can just build in little bouncer gates at the front of your automation saying, Hey, should this person get these emails? And then you can route them where they should go if they shouldn't be there? Yep. Now, those are my three favorites.

I love I love the visualization of the bouncer, the traffic light and everything. That's genius. We need to

check the ID right. You gotta check. Are you VIP? Should you be in this one? Or should you be in this sequence?

Oh, that's great. I love it.

You can give good service that way it looks it looks professional, right when you're not making those little mistakes. But that is if you're new. Don't let it stop you though. Better people get to emails than not no emails. Yeah. No. 100%. But as you start to refine, these are layers that you can build in.

Yeah, no. And it's it's really good to bring up because I mean, I've had it to where it's like, I have a welcome sequence. And it automatically gets triggered when they download a piece of content. And it's like, okay, well, what if they come in again, and download another piece of content? Like I don't want that, you know, it's so it's like, you don't want to duplicate the the welcome sequences or your nurture sequences as well. Yeah, this is really good that we're talking about

the little bouncer if when situation at the top and check those tags. Yeah.

Okay, and so the three types of taggers. That's a different situation.

So who are we as people inside of our email platforms, we're the same people that are inside of our Google Drive's and the big mess there as well. Generally, I see three types of people when it comes to tagging. And the first one is the willy nilly tanker. So I also call this Rando tagging. And it feels like a bit like drunk Mad Libs. And this is probably the most common when you know who you are, you're building out an email sequence and you see the little Tag button. And you feel like it should do it. Something there, you know, should take something but you don't really know what you should do. Or you've never really thought of a strategy. And so you give it a tag and you give it a random name. And then what happens and then later, you try to remember what it was for, in the life of you can't figure out what you were trying, like, why you made the day or what is for the purposes, or you just can't figure out what the heck you were thinking, right? You don't know what the function is. And then mistakes can happen and opportunities can be missed. But I think everyone has done that. I think all of us I actually had a client and I was cleaning up her tags and she had when probably leftover from when she was new, right? No shade we she was tagging. She was trying it out. But the tag name was literally bought the thing. That's it, that's all it was. And this is somebody with many, many different offers and a membership and a course and like all the things and there was this tag buried in the depths of her email platform. That's it but the thing and I'm like this tells me nothing. This is not helpful. So that would be a willy nilly taker. But then you might be in overtake or overtake or is are coming from a really good place because they know tags are important. But again, they they're coming at it without any strategy mapped out. And so they just tag all over the place, like, tag vomit everywhere all over the place. And they end up with so many tags with no clear jobs for them. And multiple tags for the sack, same thing. And so when they go looking for one, they don't really know what to use, because there's too many. And so you know what they do with that overwhelmed, they just make any one? Can you tag? And that's not really helpful for data or for you know, if you were to build in a gate check like one of those What did I call them a bouncer checking ID into an automation to make sure the right people should be there and you go to look at the tags going people with what tags should get these emails and you see 37 similar ones. That's not helpful. It's even more confusing, right? So yeah, that's there's a lot of overtake errs out there. And their their mechanism is just to keep adding them. And then we have this is this is actually really common to take avoider. Right, yeah, you know, you are you're like, Okay, this is coming from a place of frustration or overwhelm, or just general intimidated by the tech. And they just avoid the whole dump. They don't take it all. And the truth is, you can actually get away with that for a while when you're new. Really, it's fine. But then there comes a time when you can't continue talking to everyone on your list the exact same way, right. And there'll be come a time where people will get your welcome sequence twice, and it's confusing. So it's fine when you're new to to not have a tag strategy. But you will run into situations as you grow where you're gonna wish you had that data, and that those systems in place, but yeah, you'll grow out of it. And then you'll need data and data is where predictability and then confidence can come from. And when you're new, being able to check, like how many people did this action when I asked them to, just by pulling a quick tag, like you don't have to run a big report, you can just look at your tag numbers. It's so confidence building when you can see things working.

Yeah, I love it. And I think that's like a whole other conversation too, is like, the analytics of your email. And by the second I kind of feel like one person could be all three. Right? And

yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

It could be the avoider at first I'm not too sure about this.

Depends on the day and depends on the day.

Like jump in and like go walk and yeah, so I just feel like it could be like a your tag journey. And so like, what can it because we're all about like, you know, learning and implementing and executing on this show. So what do you suggest that people are starting out with tags, like what is like the kind of the first thing that you recommend that they do, maybe they can even do that today.

So I have a game changing tip for you today. And it's something I teach in my course WTF or takes it to greater detail, obviously. But there's one thing you can just do today easily and simply. And that's to use categories for your tags, give your tags a job. And all I mean by that not every system has categories for their tags, I just mean name it something at the beginning of the tag that makes sense for what it's doing. Right. So if you're tracking an activity, someone's done, like a link they've clicked or something they've downloaded, put activity in the at the front in brackets before you put your tag name. Because now when you see that ticker, like oh, that's an activity, someone's take it and it makes sense. You're like, Oh, I know what the job is for that tag. Right. Another category you could use I like to use one called subscriber and that notes their preferences on my list right? Like did they do have consent to email them that's important to me? Do they like a weekly email or a monthly email? Have they asked for only emails about what they've purchased and not marketing emails? Or if you have like some programs use lists as well if you have different things going on, you can use tags just to like note all the preferences and that one is really helpful when you when you go to send emails because you can just you know make sure that you're pulling people that have said they want your email it's just a really simple way to group them all right, because they will have there will be people that don't want your marketing emails but you still have to be able to email about your offer like you know things they've purchased with you if their clients so tagging is a simple way to do that. Can you that just means putting that word at the front, just changed using it in your naming structure is all you need to do is give your take the job. And pick some names like I have, I think nine categories that I teach and use in my tech naming formula. But you can make them up to just whatever makes sense for you. Just pick some categories of of things you need to know, and name them and put those at the beginning of the tag so that when you're looking at your tag list, they're all grouped together.

I love that it makes it so much Yeah. and organized. And you know, you can quickly see what it is that you need to work with right then. So

yeah, one of my favorite actually, I said that already, I guess I have lots of favorites. tech nerd over here. Another one of my favorites is a status category of tags. So I just used the status in brackets before I named the tag. And I love to add those at the beginning of an automation and remove them at the end. So I know when people are going through, they're currently inside of an automation. So the beginning of a welcome sequence, I'll add status in welcome sequence and then remove it at the end, or in Evergreen funnel or whatever you're doing. Because maybe when you send your your newsletter, you want to not send everybody who's currently getting another, you know, an automation, right? So it's really super easy to to control that if they have a tag while they're in that automation. You don't have to get you know, you don't have to go looking for that information that's right at your fingertips. So that's one of my favorites.

Yeah, yeah, that's just makes it so much more streamlined. Yeah, we mentioned data a few minutes ago. So there's so much you can track. I mean, it's like, I could drive yourself nuts. So what are just a few data points that you're like, Listen, if you're going to track anything, you know, like track this with your tags, this is these are the benefits you get from using tags is the data you can collect. This is what really matters, especially when you're first starting out.

Yeah, so you can collect a lot. And what I recommend when you're first starting is to collect it even if you don't know why you need it yet. Because having it when you do need it later, is so wonderful when you're like oh, I was I was so smart back then, and I collected this data, you'll feel so proud. Right? So just think through it helps for me when I'm building automation or sequences to really get in the shoes of your subscriber your contact and experience your automation funnels from their perspective. And think of them as just a real human like, what do we need to know about this person to give them good service or to get them offers that matter to them. So some data that would be good to collect would be like what emails they should be getting, or not getting. So we talked about that with like a category subscriber category or something that will help you know, at a glance, then you can just see like, you can pull most systems, you can pull reports and get into the data. But like, it's so easy just to pull the tags and see how many people have this tag. It's so simple, right? How many people have opted out of this sales sequence, or how many people are on my newsletter list or want to get my newsletter, so it's super easy to collect that. Another type of data I always recommend is actions they take with you. So clicking through to certain sales pages. Now I don't do that for every link in every email, because some of that data is not really relevant. If I'm linking to someone else's blog post or something unless I meant doing affiliate sales for them, I don't really need to track that. But in if I'm in a sales promotion right now I track you know when to know when they click links to the sales page, or the webinar page. Or if they are clicking through to like the book with me page to the calendar, but then you know, and then I can just easily see that data at a glance, also interests that they have. So sometimes I will double tag a link click. I'll double tag I will add a tag for with the action they took. Right but then I also will maybe add a more general tag thinking ahead to why I might need this data. I might take like if it's an affiliate sale like let's say I'm promoting a certain kind of software friends course. I will track you know, click this link but then I might add another tag that says interested in topic a because then when I can pull tags, you know if I'm trying to figure out I need to read a blog post or do some social posts what are people even into that are in my world? You say oh, a lot of people are into this topic, just simply from having added that on the front end when you send emails. So that is like a more advanced thing when you start thinking through your customer journey. But it's super helpful especially if you have if you're a multi passionate entrepreneur and you have like more like various offers that are not necessarily the same type of buyer, that's really valuable information for for you to email them differently when you know what they're interested in, right? Other data where they are in your funnel or your automation ecosystem, that's what I mentioned with status tagging. So it's easy for me to see how many people are aware and what what people are doing. Any events that they've signed up for, and attended or know showed was helpful as well, that's really good data to have. And, of course, anything they've purchased. I mean, that's super important to know. And it's nice that they have a tag when they purchase something so that you know, maybe you want to email people who bought this one thing, not your whole list, super easy to just send an email to people with that tag. And then if you have any programs, I like to use tags to, to control and to watch the access level that they have. Like if you have any kind of a membership or group program. If they have access, or if they've you know, if they've already cancelled, it's, it's nice to know they were a member, but then they've cancelled you're not going to email them the same way. You're not sending them the Zoom link this week. So I'm tagging and you build them in as you go. I think I feel like I don't want to scare any newbies off. You build it as you go. And you do one thing at a time. If you can take anything away from our chat today, just being aware that you can collect this kind of data easily using tags and just being aware next time you're in your automation or your email system. And think through like what would be really helpful to know about the people that are reading this email today. You know, and that and just that type of thinking is really all you need to start, you'll start coming up with strategy that will help you later if you just think from that perspective.

Yeah. And if you're leveraging tags for automation, right, I am a huge proponent of automating automating and outsourcing What's you can? Where should people start? Like what are your, you know, recommended ways? Like if you're going to use tags for automating? Where do you think that people should look first?

Like how they should get started tagging or for help with tags, you

know, like, there's so many uses for tags when you're Automate, you know, when you're automating things. And so just to kind of cut through the clutter, like, what are a couple of uses? Do you think I mean, we mentioned the welcome CCleaner triggering, right, and so I'm just curious, your thoughts on that.

Probably the first one that I would use, the simplest one would just be those action tags, just those link clicks, okay, it's super easy, you don't really have to think a lot through you write an email, and you're linking to a page where they can buy something. Most systems, when you make a link in your email, you can add a tag when they click that link. So anyone who clicks it gets a tag that and you can name it, you know, action or activity, click Sales page, link name at the actual sales page, so you know what you're looking for later. And just just something simple like that, and now you can start, you know, your brain will start thinking through, okay, now, like, five times today, I can just go quickly, look how many people have that tag, right and see how things are doing. And then also, the reason why that's important, because you can also generally see link clicks in in your email platform. But the reason why it's helpful is later, you know, if you're doing a promotion, and you can click, you can see how many people bought, and how many people clicked those links. So you can sort of see who's taking action from your emails versus who maybe came from social media. You just have more to look through. And and sometimes when we're collecting the data front, we don't always know why it'll be useful later. But there's so many times that where I have collected it on the front end, and then just be like, Wow, I'm glad I have that information. I can make better decisions or quicker decisions, as well. But I would just start with that, because it's super simple. And like I said, it's staring you at the face that button usually and you're wondering what to do with it. That's what I want you to do with it. I want you to give it a category so that you know what the heck it's for. And then give it a nice name a nice descriptive name so you can follow your breadcrumbs later. And just start watching activity people are taking inside in your emails. Yeah, just start start simple with that.

Yeah, and that way, you know, like who's highly engaged, and then you can start curating your messaging and content toward their interests. So that's this is so valuable and a lot of our listeners, some of them are first starting out, some of them are further along in their entrepreneurial journey. But besides tags, what, what tool or what process have you come up with that has kind of made your business is more streamline are impacted it positively.

Well, I mean, I could preach all day about automation platforms. Because we've established that already, I would say my next favorite tool that has made a really big difference in my life is is a project management tool like Trello, my entire brain lives in there. I like Trello because I'm very visual, you know, some people like Asana or click up or like various different ones, I don't think which one matters, pick the one your brain works with the best. For me, I love Trello because it's very visual. But I use it as a brain dumping ground my entire life. Even my personal life is in there, like my checklists for what to pack to go camping with the kids is in there. And my favorite feature is just the search. I can just search my words and find my brain dumps of things I was working on or thinking. It's just yeah, I'm in there constantly. That's probably one of my favorite tools.

Yeah, Trello is a great one. And you're right. I mean, I've used asana and so they all have their pros and cons, but whichever one you're going to use is the one that you should. All right. Yeah, for sure. It's like if people asked like, what kind of workout you know, should I do and I'm like the one that you'll do

100% 100 That's the answer.

So in all of this, like, what do you is there anything that you kind of incorporate into your routine? It could be daily, it could be weekly, it could just be when you need it? That kind of keeps you your your head right your your attentional your you know, it keeps you grounded. Is there anything that some people meditate? Some people work out? Is there anything that you incorporate?

Absolutely, I feel like entrepreneurship is the biggest personal development program on the planet. So much comes up as you're building a business in your your mind and your body. And I found for me, more somatic embodiment type practices really helped me and my favorite is EFT tapping would be what I do as needed. And I'm super lucky that my biz bestie is an EFT tapping practitioner and has a program for entrepreneurs. So she has like little ones when you're overwhelmed or when you need to focus and they're short little 15 minute audios, and they're my lifeline. Because it's one thing to have mindset practices. And I do that as well. But you really need sometimes it's in your body right there. Just like especially for me procrastination, it's it's a form of perfectionism and procrastination work together a lot for me in business. And I really discovered last year is there's a fear of visibility in there as well. And a lot of that is stored in the body. So just that, you know, quick 1015 minute practice is massive for me for sure.

Okay, that's really cool. I don't know too much about it. Is it something that I mean, I've heard of it, but it's something that you do, consistently, or just, it's just a tool that you grab when you need it,

whatever you want, whatever you want. It's it's super easy. It's what does she say? My friend says, it sounds Whoo. But it's like we would Jason like it's a sciency. Also, there's meridians in the body, you just do some tapping on your head and face in a certain order. And I love it because you're not buying it. There's no emotional bypassing with it. I find with some mindset practices, it feels like I'm trying to convince myself to be positive or have convinced myself but I'm not really buying it on the inside and like I say the words but I'm not really believing myself. And EFT tapping doesn't do that you start with where you're truthfully are those negative feelings and then you work through them into feeling better. But it's it's it's we would jacent I would say it's it's I think Laura Belgrade said that first but it's it's something that's quite sciency it's effective. If you find something you know, a good a good couple of audios you can use it's short, and it it makes me better every day when I need it. For sure.

Yeah. When I love the fact that it's genuine and it's like it's goes through your truth, right? It's not just like squashing those negative. thoughts or emotions. It's like starting Yeah, where you are. And so that's that's really great. As you look forward to the future, what what do you see for yourself? What do you see for your business?

Well, I'm in a state of transition right now actually, I've spent the last number of years I think since 2017 or 2018. working directly with clients and doing a lot of done for you stuff. And so I'm the person they bring on when they just can't, they just can't with the tech and the automation. And I love that because because I can and make great change in their business but for me I'm in had a period of transition where I want to do more teaching to give people the power to do it for themselves, because those clients have to have a certain level of success to be able to afford to do that. Right. And there's such a big growth in the online industry right now. And I've just noticed this big gap with the learning and not implementing. And I just really want to be able to reach more people in and help them get systems. So they can make more money without just doing so damn much like everybody's doing the most right now. And I see people doing every strategy that every marketer, you know, is doing, and there's fads and, but they're not seeing results. And I think a lot of it, there's a big gap in the learning and the knowledge about the tools that you need to use to implement not just the strategies. So that's my hope, my hope is to grow more of a teaching based side of my business so that I can so that I can work with more more people.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's great. You know, it's more about empowering, you know, people like you can do this on your own, you don't outsource it. So yeah, no, I love that. And teaching one too many is that a one to one means that you're impacting, impacting more people and helping them grow their businesses,

and my family to be to be fair, I mean, I have three kids, so it impacts me as well. You can only work with so many one on one clients. So it's it's Win Win across the board. But like you said about outsourcing a founder that also we're not going to knock out sourcing. However, there are a few things in your business, I feel you really need to master first before you can successfully outsource is I've cleaned up some real messes in some systems that someone outsource to somebody because they didn't know how to use it. I've even had, you know, clients who have paid me a lot of money to build them systems, but they had zero desire to learn how to use them. And it's not sustainable, if you don't have, you know, a fair understanding of how to how to use your system. So I think it's one of those things in business that as the as the owner, you need to sort of buckle down and learn to write

Yeah, you have need some level of knowledge, right? Because if you're just hiring somebody you don't know if they're doing the job that you need them to be doing

or not. I think it would be the same as copywriting. Wouldn't you agree? 100% you need a level of understanding before you can outsource Well,

yeah, there's so when I work with clients, there's foundational information that needs to be discussed and agreed upon. Yeah, can't just Yeah, jump in with that without No. So I mean, you

could but it wouldn't be good

to do that. Yeah. So where where can people find you online if they want to work with you or find out more information?

Yeah, well come over to my website is Cheryl rhetoric.com. And on my Contact Me page, you can see you can contact me a bunch of ways I'm on I don't know what's on their messenger Instagram, there's a chat box. We can hang out on boxer if you want. Nice. I'm all over the place. Actually, you know what, come find me on Instagram at Cheryl Rarick marketing, because I'm terrible at Instagram, you'll see there's nothing on my page. And I need people to come like come to me. And so that I feel the the positive peer pressure to like actually show up there and and get over my visibility problems and posts. Come find me so that I so that I feel like I have friends over there.

Okay, cool. Yeah, well, I'll include all those links in the show notes. And we I asked this question to everybody, because my husband and I are just big music fans. And so we always want to know if you could only listen to one music artists for the rest of your life. Man, who would it be? Oh,

what a question.

Yeah. It's sort of a jerk move. Oh. Oh, it's like

it's hot. My brain is torn in two. Okay, for the rest of my life, probably. Probably the Foo Fighters because that is like me and my husband wedding song and we have seen them in concert. So it comes with nostalgia. It comes with memories more than just the music itself. If I can only listen to one thing the rest of my life has to be something that comes with a lot of really good memories.

Yeah, okay. No, I like that. i It's so funny with the Foo Fighters. I did not really listen to that love nirvana. You know, all that, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't a big fan when firefighters first formed. But then in the past few years, I'm like, Okay, I see you.

So I went to a lot of concerts. So it has to do with us being menial in our youth in our 20s Just doing concerts all the time. But at the time, my brain also wants to pick biggie because that makes me want to dance. I do like whenever I'm doing any web design or sales pages that I love what I'm listening to so I don't have to choose the memories. I asked him Here's the memories. Yeah.

No, I love that. Cheryl. Thank you so much for taking the time. I have so enjoyed our conversation. Yes, I still have I. It's so great. So I will put all their links in the show notes. And yeah, thanks. Thanks again for joining us and listeners. We will be posting this soon and we will be back with an all new episode as well. So thanks for listening. Thanks for tuning in to the Small Business Big mindset podcast. To keep the fun going. Check out our Facebook group start and scale an online business For even more free trainings and resources from fellow entrepreneurs. If you haven't already, head on over to muscle creative.com and click subscribe to join our email list for weekly updates. And if you've enjoyed this podcast episode, check us out on your favorite podcast platform to follow us and give us a review. As always be authentic, bring an insane amount of value and keep crushing it