Erin Geiger: 0:11

All right, so welcome Camille, to Clover. So super excited to have you here. You're one of the first people I thought of to ask to invite onto the show, so super excited that we can make a time work out. So thank you for being here.

Unknown: 0:28

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be one of the inaugural guests on the show, and very honored you asked. Oh, I love it.

Erin Geiger: 0:36

So typically, we just jump right in. I know our listeners would love to hear I kind of like, you know, call it like your origin story, like, you know, what? How did you get started with your career, and how has your leadership kind of journey progressed to where you are today.

Unknown: 0:54

My career is definitely emblematic of the windy road. I would say where it started in one place, and I would have never anticipated that it would be where it is today. But hopefully it's kind of an interesting parable for those listening on how you can start in one direction and then see where the wind takes you a little bit and respond accordingly. So I actually started my career as a journalist, and that had been my concept growing up the entire time. You know, I had a newspaper when I was in the third grade. I was editor of my junior high newspaper, my high school newspaper, my college newspaper, and then I found myself in my first job at the Wall Street Journal at the London Bureau, which is like, Wow, you really. You went out and you did it. And when I was working there probably a year in, it was suddenly clear to me that that is not what I wanted to be doing, which is a very shocking thing to work all of that time and have all of that build up and then realize that where you arrive is not necessarily where you feel like you should be, and then having to kind of go back to the drawing board a little bit. So if I can share anything, it's that that is okay to have that experience, as long as you figure out, like, what that next step is to

Erin Geiger: 2:09

really figure that out. Like, how are you like, one day, you know what? Nope, where I want to be,

Unknown: 2:16

yeah. I mean, truly. And it was one of these things where, you know, I was 24 all of my friends seemed to be working at consulting firms or at investment banks, and here I was a journalist in the middle of the sort of 2008 2009 economic crash being like, I don't know what I want to do. So it was a very strange spot to be in, not what I had hoped, necessarily, but then, honestly, it was just open to what came next. So I moved back from New York to San Francisco. I lived in my parents house for a while. I started writing for a blog called Venture Beat, which, at the time, was right up there with sort of Tech Crunch and Giga home and like the big tech press boom, I was like, I'm just gonna write about things that I find really interesting, and at the time, that was climate and green technology. So I really just kind of shut down, retooled, relied on friends who worked at VentureBeat already to help usher me in. And then about two years into doing that, I was writing about Tesla Motors all the time, like truly, all the time, and I got an outreach from the Head of Marketing and Communications at the time, saying, Would you be interested in interviewing for this job on our communications team? And that was the first time I had really even thought about going in that direction. So it really was sort of a deus ex machina. If there's a lesson in that, it's just like, be open to the universe.

Erin Geiger: 3:49

Yeah, that's huge. It's kind of funny. You say that because I'm so deep into that space right now. You know, reading all the books, listening to the podcast, just about that sort of like in flow state and vibrational levels and, you know, and all of that with the universe too. So it's so funny that just synchronicity, like, be open to receive and be open, you know, to the universe. So anyway, go on, yeah,

Unknown: 4:13

and not be so stuck on your self conception of like, No, I am this type of person. This is what I do, that you aren't open to evolution in those ways. So I did go interview for that job. I ended up getting it, and that was sort of my first foray and jump into marketing and communications, which was really the deep end of the pool, because part of that job was, in fact, sitting to Elon's right and making sure he had all the data and facts and figures at his fingertips when he spoke to publications like Road and Track or wired, etc. So, you know, that really got me thinking about, how can my writing skills be translated into some of these other career choices? And that has led me through now, obviously the role of Tesla working at first round cap. Middle where I had the really good fortune of starting their content marketing program. And then truly, it really was this thing where first round happened to invest in a company called notion. So I got to know the CEO very, very early on, and that's what led me to be head of marketing at notion, right there at the very beginning, and build out a lot of that early team and strategy, and then, because I worked at notion, and that ended up being this very classic sort of roller coaster, but up into the right journey for a startup, I got the chance to then go back to venture, but this time on the investing side. So that brings us up to date.

Erin Geiger: 5:40

Not too long winded? No, it's such a cool, cool story. So let's dig a little bit. So wow, I didn't realize that you were had that experience with Elon so early on. That's so interesting.

Unknown: 5:52

I was 26 and kind of sitting there being like, wow, this is how am I here? And how can I not fail at this?

Erin Geiger: 6:00

Right? Yeah. How was it with him? We'll move on. But I know people are going to be like, Why didn't you ask her more about that? So, but how was it in that such early stages, you know, of Elon Ness?

Unknown: 6:17

Yeah. I mean, this was 2010 so that's about three years after he acquired Tesla and really became the CEO, and then decided, you know, it shouldn't just be the Roadster, it should be this entire line of vehicles. It was honestly the best experience that I could have asked for when it came to like, just on the job training as a young person, just how sharp and informed and prepared you need to be in every single situation. I got thrown into a lot of sort of scenarios where I was like, drive the Roadster up the eastern seaboard and stop along the way and talk to journalists and small towns, or go to Vegas and be on the casino floor, like giving people a walk around of the car. It really did make me so much more adaptable. Um, and Elon at that point in time. I mean, I can't speak to necessarily anything after 2012 but he really helped me out in just terms of how exacting he was, and I really appreciated the example that he set for everybody in terms of, like, we need to choose a direction, and then we're just going to attack it with everything we've got.

Erin Geiger: 7:27

Okay? And do you, do you kind of subscribe to that kind of leadership methodology yourself?

Unknown: 7:35

Oh, interesting. I think that my approach is different, but I think that there's no substitute for clarity in terms of this is where we are all going together. And here are the tactics that are going to get us there. And can we all make sure that we're aligned on those so that we can move as one, like to me, shipping all of these sort of electric cars, and electric cars was like a new concept the world, being able to paint that picture for everybody, not just externally, but also at the company around like this is what the reality will look like when we do this. And here are the actual things that need to get done in order for this to be possible. I do think that I took some leadership pointers away from that.

Erin Geiger: 8:23

Okay, and I can only imagine moving from Tesla to first round. I mean, it was maybe a jarring experience. It just seems

Unknown: 8:34

like different, yes, well, it's interesting, because I kind of got my start in content marketing at Tesla, where it wasn't just traditional comms, but there was a blog, there was a newsletter, there was the social media channels that we were running. And so I really got kind of a buffet overview of all the different types of content channels that are important for a marketing team. And so that was what I really saw as being consistent going to first round, and it it honestly was such a heartwarming transition, in a way, because the team at first round, there are so high character and mission driven to a large extent, that I felt like, Oh, I am still participating in something that is making the world a better place if We succeed. So that was kind of the through line. And then I just was so appreciative of all the autonomy they gave me to really create this content marketing strategy, slash publication from scratch.

Erin Geiger: 9:33

Yeah. And how did you go about that? You know, I'm sure there's people, you know, listening, who maybe are on the verge of taking something on where they're not replacing somebody else, and they have to build out this world, you know. So how did you kind of attack it there, and maybe in other experiences in your career as well, where you come in and it's like green

Unknown: 9:52

fields totally. And I think the cold start can be so intimidating, right? So, like first step, I think. Give yourself a ton of grace that, like, Okay, if it feels like your brain is racing in all of these different directions and you don't have, like, an immediate, clear conception of what it is you want to do, like, that's okay and super normal, and so just kind of let yourself sit with that discomfort. But then, I think, like, the first thing to always do is to define your audience, like, truly, who is it out there that you need to move in some direction? It's not just like, oh, who are all the people that are likely to pay attention? It's the people who you really want to create some transformation in some way, like, whether that is getting them to contact you about buying something, whether that is them learning something brand new that they can then go apply. But like really trying to get as specific as you can on that definition of audience, and then try to talk to as many of them that fit that definition as possible. Like, one of the things that I did at first round was figure out, you know, which founders would we ideally want to replicate if we could have been like these were the folks, where we would invest in them several times over. And what was it that those people really wanted? What was it that they were missing in their everyday lives running these companies, and almost all of them said some variety of I would really love to be able to have coffee with Jeff Weiner or Stewart Butterfield, or some of these folks who were really, I think, in the limelight at that time as being really inspiring leaders. And of course, most early stage founders don't have access to like go sit down with someone like that. So my task really was, how do you scale that type of conversation and the value that it might come out of it. And that's how the review format of just like, very deep, tactical interviewing, came to be, was, can I be a proxy for the founder, asking these, like, very, very specific questions and pulling these learnings out of these folks?

Erin Geiger: 11:56

Okay, no, it's so interesting. I know I love the work that you, you've done at first round for sure, so and then, as you kind of segued into notion, tell us kind of about that transition and the scale of what you built at first rounded. It kind of compound, you know, as notion was growing or, yeah, talk

Unknown: 12:16

about that, yeah. Well, I took, I took some time off in between first round and notion. And I will just say to your audience that if you can, I know it's a privilege, but if you can take any time off in between things, I highly recommend doing it just to make sure that you're sort of resetting your world a little bit, and to take a breath and to think about your intentions for the next role. But when I landed at notion, no matter how much peace I had tried to cultivate for myself, it was immediately very, very scary, mostly because I went from leading marketing at a venture capital firm, which is so different, like at a venture capital firm, your goal is to maximize awareness of that particular venture capital firm so that you have the opportunity to work with the exceptional people that you are able to meet through that route at a company like notion, or most companies, you are trying to maximize your audience in order to maximize revenue, and truly just be like, How can I reach as many people as possible and convince them that this is something that they Want and should spend money on. And we were going from, you know, factor of 1000s of people to now, like many millions of people that I was hoping to convert in this way. And so landing there and identifying, like, the first things to do, which were very different, like content marketing, wasn't going to be the reason that anyone decided to use notion. And so it actually was not something that I even brought onto the team until, like, a year in. Instead, it was more like, oh, people want templates in order to understand how they can use this. They want community because they want to come together and talk about what they're building. So the first things that I ended up doing were actually very antithetical to what I had learned at first round and were more like, how do we start an ambassador program? How do we get user education out there into the field in a way that doesn't feel heavy handed? How can we make sure that our design and like the web experience and the brand experience feels really cohesive with the product? So yeah, I was it was being comfortable, or getting myself comfortable with being like, maybe nothing that I did before is going to translate to this, and I'm gonna have to figure

Erin Geiger: 14:31

it out. Yeah, that's which can be exciting and scary all at the same time.

Unknown: 14:35

Yes, yes. And also you have that horrible feeling of like, I hope that no one around me can tell that I don't really know what I'm doing, let me see

Erin Geiger: 14:45

smoke and mirrors. And so you mentioned kind of bringing content marketing into your organization about a year in. So when you first came on, like, how did you decide how to kind of structure the team you're about? Building and who to bring on first and all that.

Unknown: 15:02

Yeah. So definitely, the thing that was most asserted about notion, like, the thing that was the most obvious was that people already, organically wanted to be talking about it like they were on Twitter, they were on YouTube, they were on Instagram, all being like, look at what I build. Isn't this cool? And there was, like a handful of 20 of these people who just kept popping up. So it became somewhat clear that if we put these people together and helped facilitate them amplifying notion, then we would have people on our own behalf telling our story out there in the world. And that was going to be great. So actually, the very first hire that I made to the team has been Lang who has gone on to become, I think, one of the most well recognized and Epic community leaders in the entire industry. But he was the one that really started the notion Ambassadors Program, which, over time, then turned into multi hundreds of people very attached to the product out there, telling our story very loudly on our behalf. Our influencer program was born out of that all these people who now teach notion courses or build notion templates, or like people who now are selling like consulting services, all of that that came out of the community that Ben built, and then also figuring out, like, Okay, who? Who is going to help me cover the basics here when it comes to like, an email onboarding series, making sure that the onboarding in the product actually was orienting people so that they wouldn't immediately bounce out of it. And was able to work with a really talented individual named David Tibbetts, who started on the customer experience team, started before me at notion, and then became a product marketer, sort of overnight, and has now gone on to become the product marketing lead for notion AI, which I think is like their tent pole product. But that, to me, was this interesting learning experience of, just like people have all of these skills, can you be creative and open minded about how those skills combine in order to do something?

Erin Geiger: 17:12

Yeah, yeah. And because you were so early on in notion, like, what was the growth trajectory like when you left, like in, you know, what was that like bring, you know, being like, at a company or such early stage and kind of bringing it forward,

Unknown: 17:30

yeah. I mean, there's an interesting story that I had the pleasure of working on with Molly Graham, who was the COO of quip. She's one of these folks that has just like, been a leader early on at like Google, Facebook, extremely knowledgeable now. She runs an organization for coos. She and I worked on the story together called give away your Legos. About what it feels like to be at a early stage startup, which is, you know, you're building your thing here, but then more and more and more people are being hired, and you feel the company expanding. And it really does feel like you're being pulled apart in a lot of ways, where, like the thing that you used to do, the thing that you used to own, is now being split into many little pieces and apportioned out to many more people. And it can really feel like so disorienting. There's a lot of anxiety involved in being like, no, but this was my job, and if you hire more people, then aren't I going to lose my job? And it makes the growth feel just like, really hard, honestly, to endure sometimes. And I certainly fell prey to that. I was like, Thank goodness I helped write that story, because I at least went in eyes open a little bit. But it can feel like really, really intense to just see the company growing. Not have a direct line of sight to how you are going to scale yourself, necessarily, but just be like, if I put in these reps or this energy, that I think I'll get there. But to anybody who's in that experience right now, it is, it is incredibly normal to just be feeling like kind of a generalized anxiety without knowing where it's coming from,

Erin Geiger: 19:13

yeah. And for a lot of people, it's, it's a discovery, right? Because then some people are like, Oh, I'm a builder, you know, like, I I live in the building phase of a company, and then I move on, you know, to my next thing and

Unknown: 19:27

absolutely, and then certain things, like, you'll pioneer certain programs, and then that program will become somewhat repetitious, you know, you'll be like, let's start doing webinars. And now, notion, does, you know, multiple webinars per week, and it's like a factory floor. And you do have to know yourself really well in that sense. And actually, when I am helping people earlier in their careers figure out, like what they might want to do next or what they should be pursuing, I do put some emphasis on Do you know what stage of person you are? Because I think. It is like a very, very different experience. And it's one of those things that feels very core to people, in the sense that if you misplace yourself along that continuum, it can feel like a wrong match pretty fast.

Erin Geiger: 20:13

Yeah, for sure. And I think a lot of people don't realize that going in, especially in the startup world, you know, of like as the company changes, you are may you may or may not change with it, and that's okay, you know,

Unknown: 20:24

yes, yes. And also, like, very much. So not allowing that to be a value judgment on yourself, where, like, people are constantly talking about, like, Oh, are you going to scale with the growth of the company? I mean, the growth the company is going, like, almost vertical, and like, people grow linearly, generally speaking. So unless you really are putting, you know, some superhuman effort into it, which a lot of people do, but I think it's hard for some people to be like, Oh, I just wasn't good enough. Or there was this saying that creeped into my mind somewhere along the line in my career, that was truly exceptional. People can adapt to any environment. And I just want to share that like, I do not think that that's true. I think you can be truly exceptional and find yourself at the wrong stage or in the wrong company, and that's okay, and not about your count your talent,

Erin Geiger: 21:16

right? It's more about Okay. Where do you go from here? You know, kind of a thing. And so, and then you so, you went from motion, you went back to venture, right? So where you are now. And so, how was that kind of transitioning? I feel like you've come for full circle. Like, yeah, how is that transitioning to venture? And what, what do you love about what you're doing now? And what do you see is your leadership capacity currently?

Unknown: 21:42

Yeah, I mean, one thing that I love about venture is just the variety. So the job that I'm in now here at XYZ venture capital, I'm one of four partners inside of a team of 13 people, and I just love how my job is really all about meeting incredibly brilliant people and talking to them about new ideas, like what a gift to be in that type of role. And even when days are hard, I try to center myself with the gratitude that that's really the basis of what it is that I do, and then the fact that I do get to take all of this sort of like hard one knowledge that I got from notion and observing so many companies at first round, like all of the tough nights, all of like the situations I did not know how to navigate and bring what I learned to bear for the founders that I work with now, so that hopefully I can help them shortcut, or at least, like have a better sense of what to do in some of the toughest spots of the

Erin Geiger: 22:42

journey. Yeah, on that I can imagine like stakes are probably pretty high, you know, in some situations that you find yourself in, yeah, how, how do you kind of push through? And how is that kind of like, how is your decision making process impacted? And how do you kind of ensure that, because you are leading others through it as well. So how do you kind of navigate

Unknown: 23:07

that? Yeah, um, it's interesting. So one of the favorite parts of my role, like truly, one of the greatest gifts that I've had here at XYZ, is that I get to work really closely with an associate here named Lucy Wilmot, and she is several years out of Harvard. She is one of the brightest, most brilliant people I've met in my career. And I think that part of what you're asking is like, how does the like, what my leadership sort of themes have been, and how have they have like, materialized here and in the decision making is that it's a really beautiful give and take between us, as we are evaluating companies now together, where we're able to kind of figure it out with one another. Because I am also very new at this, and so part of the way that the leadership shows up is just like being really self aware, and I think that that is an underrated part of leadership, and then allowing that to provide opportunity for her to step in and maybe do more than you would generally do in an associate role at a lot of firms. I don't know if that answers the

Erin Geiger: 24:20

question, and it's, I think it's a great thing that you brought up too, because I think a lot of times we can feel like, especially as we're kind of taking on new leadership roles or kind of growing in our careers, like, I got this, like, I don't need help, I don't need support, like, I'm in my little silo and I'm going to push through, and I got it, you know, and, Yeah, or, like,

Unknown: 24:41

this is my box of work, and then I'm portioning out a piece of that, and this is your little box of work that people don't learn from each other really well when that's the setting,

Erin Geiger: 24:52

right? So I think that's another great point that you brought up. Is like, you know, it's okay, you know, collaboration, and if you. See something in someone else that's kind of like, share, you know, because we all grow together. And I think that also speaks to everyone has such a different definition of success, right? And it's like, some people might be like, Well, I'm successful if I can accomplish something with zero help. It's like, totally, I

Unknown: 25:21

think a lot of I drove this, right? I drove this from end to end,

Erin Geiger: 25:26

exactly. And so it's like, you know, I don't know, do you kind of have now that you're further along in your career, like, a vision of what success looks like to you? And kind of like, has that changed over time from years ago to who you are now, today,

Unknown: 25:42

definitely. I mean, today, I really think it's about enriching the people around you to the best of your ability, right? So like helping them understand things, helping them get the resources they need, if I can, and being able to, like, pass the ball to a lot of people, and not feeling like I have to hang on to it in order to get the glory or the credit. And I think that that is like a very classic learning experience over the course of one's career, like I definitely remember earlier on, like feeling very passionately that my individual work get acknowledged, and if it wasn't, then I would either sulk, or I would, like, raise my hand and be like, that was me. And I think somewhere in like, my early 30s, through the examples of other leaders, etc, it really, for me, became about like, how much of that credit can I give away and be like it really was all of these folks around me, and that's what makes me feel the most successful, is if I get to do that most of the time. Yeah, I think that that's something that I would just offer to anybody who's sort of earlier in their careers, that people often think that they have to claim achievement in order to get that acknowledgement. But it really isn't, isn't what you think it is.

Erin Geiger: 27:09

Yeah, no, that's huge. And there's so many people that are still learning that. And so, you know, that's a it's actually as a huge kind of growth mechanism, for sure, and it does make me think, like, as a woman who's had all of these leadership roles, like, one after the other, and kind of like, forging your path, what you have, any like, sort of unique challenges that you came across, like, you know, you know, in a lot of these are male dominated fields as well, you know that you've been In. And so how have you, kind of, like, how has it impacted your career? Kind of, what challenges have you had to overcome, really?

Unknown: 27:48

Yeah, you know, I feel very fortunate in the sense that I don't feel like gender is entered in that much to my experience, like I've never felt limited in a way where, like, oh, I can't get that job, or I can't get that project, or something along those lines. It shows up every now and again, oddly now in my 40s or my late 30s, where people ask me all the time about, am I married? Do I have kids? Do I have a family of my own? And there appears to be some judgment embedded in that that, like all of a sudden, is impacting my professional life. And I am a single, childless woman, child free woman, I can see how, and this is something that I did not expect to come up, but in this very strange sort of latter part of my career that ending up being something that feels like there is a professional aspect to it that I didn't anticipate. I know that's a very odd thing to bring up, and it's a little bit different than like the general like, how might being a woman have shown up in different ways, but in case anyone out there is also experiencing that you're definitely not alone.

Erin Geiger: 29:03

No, I'm glad you brought that up, because it is true. Like they're not asking your male colleague, you know, like, what Tell me about your kids? You know, like that probably would ever come. You know, a friend of mine, Laura belgray, she's an incredible writer, and has this amazing book out. It's called tough titties.

Unknown: 29:25

Like, great title.

Erin Geiger: 29:26

You'd actually love it. It's, she grew up in New York, and it's just incredible. And so she, she is married, but they decided not to have kiddos. And so she was like, even with the her book, she was like, I'm writing this book. And people kept saying, like, oh, it's like, birthing a baby. Like, your book. It's like, your book, baby. And she was like, It's not my baby, it's a book that I'm writing. Why is everyone equate like, I'm not a mom, like, I just tell you, you know, it's like, leave me alone. It's a book. Excited about it, but I'm not birthing a book, baby. I.

Unknown: 30:00

Totally It's interesting being on the venture side too, just in case it is relevant to anyone out there that oftentimes you are evaluated on the basis of your character, because these are long term partnerships where people want to make sure that they know exactly who they're entering into a deal with, and that has to do with like the limited partners that decide to invest in our fund that has to do with the folks who I'm excited to fund. And so there's a lot of, like, personal questions that get passed around in those sort of decision making processes. And I've seen this come up more and more

Erin Geiger: 30:37

often. Yeah, that's interesting. And so when you're kind of, you're dealing with so much throughout the day, right? Every day is different, probably for you. Is there anything that you do that kind of helps your mindset or, you know, kind of, like, shifts the tone, either the beginning of every day or throughout, where you're like, I gotta, like, reset, you know, is there anything that you kind of do,

Unknown: 31:00

yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of us have that moment at least once a day where it's like, okay, literally, it feels like I've spilled a bunch of marbles on the floor, and they're all just like, running in different directions now, with all the different tasks that I could do with this moment, and I think at those moments it's very important to, like, go take a walk, like, truly, because even if you sit down and you're going to try to force yourself to make a priority, make a prioritized list, as all those marbles are running away from you, like, it's not going to be good. So like, go, like, look away from a screen. Go, like, buy a beverage that's, like, across the street or something, and then come back. And then I really do like to make lists. So I and written lists are very helpful to me for whatever reason. I'm a kinesthetic learner, so I just sort of start writing the things that I don't want to forget, because so much of it can just be like I have to remember, I have to remember, and then I'll go through and I'll actually put numbers next to them after I've written them all down, okay, so that I don't feel like I have to write them down in a particular order. It's really just about externalizing and then prioritizing, yeah, but yeah. I think one of the biggest challenges that I feel like, I'm sure everybody talks about it, but also feels like nobody talks about it, is just how much in our modern jobs we have to remember do, like, hold in our brains, honestly, in order to to get our jobs done,

Erin Geiger: 32:23

yeah, no, and it's huge, and I love that, that you kind of, I just get everything out. I'll just write everything down. It doesn't have to be in any, some sort of, like, fancy order or fashion or anything. It's just you get it out, and then after that, yeah, then you can deal with prioritizing it. Because I think that people up as well, you know, they're like, Well, wait, what's this is, you know, this is like, higher priority than this, and then I can, you know, and it's like, no, no, just like, word vomit, get it all out. You know, prioritize from there, yeah, totally. People up,

Unknown: 32:52

yeah. I think when we, like force, force, all of our tasks into, like, these very like, sort of hospital corners, sort of systems,

Erin Geiger: 33:00

exactly, everything, yeah, everything's in a bucket in a certain place, and it's, you know, and it's just like, No stop.

Unknown: 33:08

It's okay to just, yeah, yeah. That's so funny.

Erin Geiger: 33:14

So is there any sort of, any sort of, like, resource that has helped you, like, be it, like I mentioned the book a little bit earlier, like a book, a podcast, or, you know, a blog, or just like a leader that you follow, you know that you'd want to, kind of like, share with others might be listening, that might help them out, you know, check out too, and your leadership or career journey, really,

Unknown: 33:35

yeah, I mean, a book that made a profound impact on me, and it's definitely, like, helpful for marketers, but I think it'd be helpful for anyone as play. Anyone is play bigger, which is essentially like, hey, it's very easy to get into the minutia of your day to day and break your job down into like, these, these tasks. But how can you make sure that you are always keeping at least, like, one foot in the How can I how can I do something really impactful on like, a order of magnitude above, like, just like the sheer day to day of plowing through one's email and not let go of the idea in your career of having that type of broader impact and being, like, quite purposeful, I think is, like, really, really important for me, and it's a book that I think really helped enshrine that for me, I'm really lucky to work around people who I want to be more like, and that was actually one of my decision making criteria when I was deciding which firm would be interesting to try this investing role at is, can I surround myself fully with people like where? If I become more like them, because we spend so much time together, I would be a happy camper. And one of my partners here is a guy named Art Clark, and He most recently was running AI and ML programs at Apple. So very smart guy and. The way that art runs his life is just like incredibly thoughtful, and I've never seen anyone do it quite like it, where he has OKRs across his personal life and his professional life to make sure that he is investing in all the things that he hopes will come to fruition in certain ways, within, like, five years, 10 years every week on Sundays, art has a meeting with himself that is non negotiable that he always has, where he goes through the next two weeks and make sure that everything feels manageable. He's not double booked himself in any way, or he can correct anything like that, where he's setting his intentions and making sure that he is going to have the ability to sort of revisit how he performed against those intentions week after week. And that, to me, is just like, blown my mind open, and I can see how it's, like, transformative over time. So I just wanted to share that with your listeners, because that's one of the things that has made the biggest impact on me since I've taken this job,

Erin Geiger: 36:01

wow, that is huge. Because, I mean, there's so many things that you said there, you know, that we could dive into, but the fact that, like so many of us are just clawing our way their life, yeah,

Unknown: 36:13

just, please, let me get through this where, like, somebody was like, you know, if I had to be honest, like, I'm a professional emailer like that. If somebody were to watch me do my job, that's what they were to do.

Erin Geiger: 36:28

I know it's like, I'm a professional meeting attender and email, you know, email, exactly it's and it's like, but just to stop and take that broader look of like, okay, but what else am I impacting big picture and and then I feel like a lot of us are yes people like, okay, yeah, sure, I can take that meeting. Oh, I'm double booked me. How do I figure this out? You know? And so I love that He has this meeting with himself, and he just makes sure, you know, because really, like, our our physical and mental health needs to come first, you know. And like, make sure that we're not, you know, nothing's too overwhelming, like we can figure this out kind of a thing. So I think that's a great, actually, thing that people should add to their I was gonna add to their schedule to make even more overwhelmed. But this is like, check in with yourself to make sure that that doesn't happen. So thank you for sharing that that's actually

Unknown: 37:16

super cool. Yeah, yeah. And he's also been able it has helped him do really incredible things where it's like, I'm going to run this amount, I'm going to write a novel on the side of my very demanding job, I am going to not eat sugar, which, to me, feels insurmountable, but it's a system that just makes a lot of those types of goals feel more realistic. Yeah,

Erin Geiger: 37:39

for sure, it's been so amazing. Every time I talk to you, I feel better about everything. So likewise, this is such a great discussion. Where can people find you online if they want to connect? Yeah,

Unknown: 37:53

I'm on Twitter. I'm just at Camille Ricketts, so just exactly how it's sounds and spelled. I mean, I'm on there quite a bit. I use Twitter mostly to congratulate other people on their accomplishments, because it feels like the best venue for that, and I love seeing what everybody else is up to. And then LinkedIn as well. I'm always excited to connect on LinkedIn. Okay,

Erin Geiger: 38:16

cool. We'll post those links, and I love that. You also still call it Twitter. I don't think I'll ever not call it Twitter.

Unknown: 38:22

Yes, used to sit next to Elon, still calling it Twitter, refusing to do otherwise.

Erin Geiger: 38:29

I love it. Okay, so this is just a fun bonus question that I ask everybody, and I might change it down the line, but I've liked it for my first podcast, so I'm going with it. We're such huge music heads over here. So I always ask if there's only one music artist you can listen to for the rest of your life, who would it be?

Unknown: 38:48

I'm gonna say Paul Simon, mostly because I grew up with Paul Simon, and he was my parents' favorite artist. And so whenever I hear Graceland, the album in particular, I'm just filled with all kinds of memories that make me quite happy. Yeah, very

Erin Geiger: 39:07

cool, yay. Well, thank you for that. Yeah, some people are like, that's such a mean question. No idea.

Unknown: 39:19

Well, thank you for taking

Erin Geiger: 39:20

the time. Oh, mine, Beastie Boys. Oh, nice. Very good. Yeah, go wrong with my mom's like, still, you still, like,

Unknown: 39:29

you're like, Yeah, I'm the same person that I was.

Erin Geiger: 39:33

Like, you're not still seen anymore. What is your deal? Like, yep, still, like, the beasties. But thank you again for taking the time super, super fun as always, and you've shared so many pieces of insight and advice that are going to be so helpful. So I'm just super grateful.

Unknown: 39:50

I'm so glad. Thank you for having me on this was really great. Yeah.