Erin Geiger: 0:10

Hey everybody, welcome to the latest episode of clover. Thank you for joining us this week. We have Jordan Lee. She is currently vice president customer experience at Plum. Jordan and I, just disclosure, have worked together in the past, so we're super excited to actually catch up and see each other. I love this part of recording the podcast. I get to connect with people so Jordan, thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. Absolutely.

Unknown: 0:37

Aaron, it's great to see you and talk to you again, and thank you for having me on

Erin Geiger: 0:42

for sure, you're one of my favorite people. You know when we worked together before? So So I typically do jump right in with these, and I am always. I get enamored with hearing people's stories like I feel like everybody has a story. And I love to hear how people got from point A to point B, how they started out and how they got to where they are today. So if you would indulge me in that and kind of tell us your story, that would be amazing.

Unknown: 1:09

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm right there with you. I love an origin story. I love hearing about people and where they come from, and you know how that all kind of transpired. It's just so interesting. We've all had such different, such different experiences and backgrounds, and it's fascinating to learn about that kind of thing. But anyway, with that said, you know, while I, as you know, I come from, you know, small little town North Carolina, dirt roads, corn fields, a leaky stoplight, that sort of thing I've always had, and been very fortunate to have a lot of you know, travel and my world was big, a lot of different experiences and different places, different people. So with that, my just baseline personality. I love adventure. I love adrenaline and growth and trying and learning new things. I hate stagnancy, and that applies to my personal life and my professional life alike. But, you know, we really think about, you know, what makes, what makes you thrive, what makes somebody like happy in that? And for me, it's, it's really, you know, who's along on that journey with me too? And I just, you know, I think that's where the people centric part comes into place, and I've always been very kind of social person in that regard. Maybe a little different since covid That certainly made me more of an introvert. But yeah, it really lended itself rather to that switch from North Carolina to my typical atmosphere to coming to New York City and working in the businesses and the industries that I've worked in,

Erin Geiger: 2:45

yeah, let's dive into that little bit. So where did your career take you first? Like, let's talk about that trajectory of, kind of, like, where you started and, you know, the path that led you to where you are now, at Plum, yeah,

Unknown: 2:59

absolutely. So I moved to New York City, like a typical cliche, to work in fashion. I did for many years. I really just honestly, I applied to anything and everything that I possibly could in New York while still living in North Carolina. So I would fly standby up on flights to have job interviews, often with my luggage, my suitcase in hand and telling them I flew up just for this interview. And eventually I landed a job, but it was really anything and everything in fashion, right? I had no idea what I wanted to do. I went. I had a degree in merchandising and business and to try to figure out make it work. And I landed, actually, at an unpaid internship with a modeling agency during fashion week. But to me to young Jordan, that was more than enough, and I broke at the time, so I got a $2,500 personal loan, moved myself up to New York. My best friends. We were four years old. Had just started medical school in the city, so I crashed with her in her dorm until I, you know, had another job that actually paid me and could find an apartment and do all of that. And then again, I finally did. I got this great opportunity at a fashion technology startup where I was employee number five, and I got the opportunity to wear as many hats as humanly possible, which I didn't know that I loved, but now, obviously I do, came on board as a customer success manager, but really what that transitioned into was everything right. I was helping out on sales calls and leads and onboarding and ongoing management and anything and everything, which then kind of sparked the time that I spent in fashion tech and those kinds of SaaS based solutions. But then what really made me trans. To where I am today, though, is, you know, another cliche, fashion is exactly what everyone tells you. It is, I realized I loved it so much, but I didn't love working in it like I thought I would. So I kind of came to this fork in the road of, okay, well, if it's not fashion, then what is it that I'm like? What is it that I've enjoyed doing and thriving in that I want to continue to explore more? And it was that, you know, like relationship building part, it was the onboarding and the customer management and working in a company and a SaaS solution where I saw my impacts and how they were or how they were impacting, rather the employer that we're working with, our customers, as well as the organization as a whole. So it kind of clicked. And I really realized that, you know, I like building these things. I liked this kind of environment, and okay, if it's not going to be in fashion, then what's it going to be in I had a good recruiter friend that reached out to me about an opportunity at bounty jobs, where Aaron and I met, and it was HR technologies at a fashion The interesting part is that the business model was exactly the same. So instead of connecting buyers and fashion houses or designers and making their relationship, the ordering and all of that easier and more streamlined, while also creating a marketplace for them to expand their own businesses. Bounty Jobs did that, but for third party recruiters and employers that had jobs to build so streamline that process of them working together created a marketplace for them to expand their business. So it seems like a natural kind of fit. But then I thought to myself, Okay, what do I know about HR? Though? Why do I care about HR? Is this something I want to, you know, give up attachment and jump into and when I got to know bounty jobs as a company more and their why and what they were solving for and the impact that they had on customers and the industry. That's really when it all flicked. So I realized it's about seeing an alignment between myself, what I care about, the good in the world, if you will, and what the company is doing to make an impact, and I kind of fell into this HR tech world, and now it's been well over a decade, and I never thought I'd end up here, but I'm so happy to be here.

Erin Geiger: 7:33

Yeah, no, that's awesome, and it's a perfect fit for you too, because you really are so personable, and you know you really do look out for the best interests of each and every person like you're just so genuine. So it's no mistake that you fell into that industry, that's for sure. And so I love that you moved to New York with nothing lined up. I did a very similar thing moving to San Francisco. Like, no job. Like, no. I was like, oh, we'll figure it out. So for those that are listening, you know, they there probably are some listeners that are, like, on the verge of taking a jump, taking a plunge, you know. So, like, what helped you kind of take that leap, right? Of like, Oh, I'm just gonna go to New York, no job, you know. I'm gonna, like, crash with my friend, you know, and see how this, this works out, like, because that could be aligned with people's careers, right? They want to make a move and want to make a jump, and they're just like, Ugh, you know, so kind of, what sort of mindset were you in to do something like that?

Unknown: 8:37

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, at that point in my life, especially this was a long time ago. I was determined, I was fearless, I was young, and I knew that I wanted to be in New York, and that was enough. I'll figure out the rest when I get there along the way, right? But having the mindset, honestly, of what's the worst that could happen? You know what? In my specific scenario, I fail miserably, and I go back to North Carolina and I regroup. Who bears at least I tried, and we learned from it, we grew from it, and especially now so often. And this is, I think, something that women especially face is, not only are we put in boxes, but then we'll put ourselves in boxes too. So having the confidence to break that down, and, you know, allow yourself to try new things or to take a risk, and whether that's at your own organization or, you know, just venturing out and taking a class in something that interests you, or going to that networking meetup alone that gives you So many nerves, you know, just try it. Nobody's perfect. That's, I think, a big thing that I had to learn is that we're all just out here doing our best, and there's no harm trying. And just have to get out there and do it, and you figure it out for yourself. It's not about the judgment of others or others perceptions.

Erin Geiger: 9:58

Yeah, no, for sure. And I think that can be applied to working in a startup environment, right? So when you said you were like, employee number five, and it is so true, like, I've worked in so many startups, and it's like, yes, you have the role that you were hired for, but that's not your only role. It's whatever needs to be done. So you know, and getting into the startup world early on in your career. I mean, I think it's a huge benefit. I, you know, I had a, you know, it's kind of a same kind of a parallel sort of growth trajectory in that, you know, I got involved in startups very, very early on. So how did that kind of impact you for the rest of your career, as far as, like, leadership and, you know, resilience as you kind of move forward, because you did switch, right? You know, industries are focused that sort of a thing. So, so working in a startup and kind of, like wearing every hat, you know, how has that impacted you along along the way? Yeah, I

Unknown: 11:00

think for me, and especially I love the word that you use resilience, like, in my eyes, there's just no way around it right in this job that I was in in this city, like you just have to keep going, like, that's just a fact, and adapt and take whatever comes and to your earlier point, there's no room for a well, this is not My job, so I can't help with that attitude. It always needs to be a give me whatever you can throw at me. Of course, within reason, we don't want to over overwork people and things like that, but give me whatever you got. These are growth and learning opportunities, and that's exactly what they were. So for me, not only did I learn so much tangibly, but I learned about different roles within an organization, and it allows you to branch out into these areas that you might not otherwise, and then provides a little more insight and focus. You know, I got to then learn more what I wanted to explore, career wise, and now as a leader, understand much better of how to share, but others in that same or a similar process,

Erin Geiger: 12:03

yeah, and it's all about having that open mind, right? Because, like, you come in as something like, Okay, I'm going to do this function, you know, but then, like, to your point, you get to see what else is going on in the company and what you might be interested in. So honestly, I'm kind of like recommending people start at a startup at the beginning of their career. Absolutely, it's such a great way to see what all is out there. And, you know, and what you know, it's a good test bed, you know, because it is a little bit easier to move around to, you know, like, oh, maybe I'll start in talent acquisition, and then I'll move over to product, or I'll move over to sale, you know, and kind of, like, see what, see what's, what fits you. And so you've, kind of, it seems like each place that you've worked has gone through really rapid growth, right? So you've worked startups, you've been through acquisitions. So, you know, talk a little bit about that, like, because you've had to scale teams and people like while you're helping to scale a company. And so what talk a little bit about that? And you know how, how you're able to do that, because, because of the nature of your work, you are working come with people and nurturing their career, you know, that sort of a thing. And so how have you applied that?

Unknown: 13:25

Yeah, so two things stick out immediately. One is treating humans like humans, right, understanding the person behind the work, and making sure that they are supported in a way that they need to be successful, and make sure that they know that they have a voice. You know, it sets nobody for success if something is just forced upon them or shoved down their throat and are told just to deal with it. And quite frankly, that goes for employees and organizations and how I work with customers alike, but as a leader, for example, you know, I know what the job needs. I know the project isn't these things, like inside and out, but things are not things and people are not a one size fits all, so you need to use that deep understanding to customize certain interactions or processes or things like that for whatever the person in the situation is, while Also not compromising the integrity of the product. Yeah.

Erin Geiger: 14:22

No, that makes a lot of sense. And so, and it's all about kind of create you I would imagine you would have a big part in creating culture around, you know, like, where you're you're working. So what, you know, I always hear people talk about, like, how culture is so important, and we got to build great culture. And, you know, it's like, culture, culture, culture. And it's like so many buzzword right now, right? Exactly. So many times people are just like, they say it, and then there's no action behind it. So it's like, what have you done, or what have you seen? Especially now, right? There's so much change going on in the world. Place like that actually helps people build the culture that they want in their workforce and have it actually stick like, what have you seen work in that

Unknown: 15:12

absolutely. And it can be tricky, right? Because you're hitting certain metrics, and you can say, Okay, I made this sale, or I hit this number, or I achieved X, Y and Z, but culture is so much more subjective and different for different people, and there's so many layers to it. And as we're humans, we're all different, and there's so much to consider here from the human side, from the business side. So when I boil it all down, what really helps build that the most for me is things like trust and authenticity, psychological safety, you know, consistently showing up for others and for yourself, and it goes every which way. You know, it's very much a two lane road or multi line, mostly Lane interstate, excuse me, yeah. So for example, you know my team, they know what my personal dreamers are. They know the things that I might skip over or I might struggle to do as well when I'm burnt out or I'm extra busy, and I've given them the autonomy to straight up tell me when I'm failing at those things, or if I'm not giving them all that they need to be successful, to be comfortable, whatever it is. And then I'll tie it back to, you know what I said at the top of this question about trust and authenticity and psychological safety. Because without those things, you're not going to be able to build a good culture. You're not going to be able to take risks. People are going to trust not just you, but the organization also. Yeah,

Erin Geiger: 16:40

and they're going to kind of hold things very close to the vest, right? And so, and not speak about things, even if it's like an innovative idea, or, on the flip side, something negative that they're seeing going on in the company, you know? And so it's kind of like, it kind of breeds, like non communication, really, and distrust to your point. And so I you know, as you're speaking like, I can't help but notice like you have you've changed through, went through a few different industries, right? And so it's like fashion recruiting, tech, HR, tech, that sort of a thing. So again, I'm seeing that pattern of like, let's go, let's try it, let's do it. You know, it's such a love. So it's like, for how do you approach that? Like, you basically learn new industries. I mean, I'm sure there's overlap between recruiting tech and HR tech, you know, and that that sort of a thing. But it's like, you know, for those that are just like, I want to especially now, because the employment market is a little crazy. And I personally know a lot of people who are switching careers, right, because they either they can't get a certain level role in their career, or they're like, maybe this is the time for me to make a move. And so like, what do you say? Like, how do you approach that? Like, learning a new industry from scratch, kind of like jumping into something new. Career wise, like you did it personally, going to New York, and then career wise, like, you know, what are your thoughts on that?

Unknown: 18:10

I think he just, you cannot be afraid to jump in and get your hands dirty. And it's almost easier now than it was, you know, like for me 15 years ago, with all the things and technology and visibility that we have available to us, there's so many different ways that you can educate yourself or dive into another area of the business, another another industry altogether, and there's so much that you can do to help yourself in that way. Obviously, community is also incredibly important. I wouldn't be where I am without the connections that I've made both, you know, personally, professionally. I mean, I'm on this podcast right now, but you Aaron, because of that, we you know, so important to find people that you know, good mentors, support systems and again, just the fearlessness, like just take a leap, try it, do it, and if your company is not affording you that opportunity right now, there are other ways that you can gain at least that education yourself.

Erin Geiger: 19:17

Yeah, no, for sure. And I always feel like if a desire is placed on your heart, it's there for a reason, right? And so, to your point, it's like, find people in that area, like, be it like a mentor or, you know, just someone that has an area is their area of expertise, you know, because so many people like, they want to help, and they want to answer your questions and that sort of a thing. So even if it's like, totally different, opposite than from what you've been doing, yeah, I love, I love your thought of like, find those people. There are people within that area, that that topic area, that can really give you that info and also give you the info, so that maybe you're like, No, actually, that's not for me. Just kidding, you know. And. Need to go in a different direction.

Unknown: 20:02

So coming to those conversations, not just say, like, I'm interested in marketing, tell me about it, right? But this has been my experience. This has been what I've perhaps been afforded. This is the research I did. This is what I understand. This is what I still like to know. You know, I don't know what I don't know. So coming forward with, you know, your own research and ideas, and not as, like that kind of blank slate of of expecting somebody to just teach you. It's really about collaboration, right? Never expected to get fully all the way there by yourself, but, you know, it's a push pull.

Erin Geiger: 20:40

Yeah, no, exactly. And so on that tangent. So when you are considering a new opportunity, right? Like, maybe you're going to jump to a new company, or, you know, just a new role, how do you evaluate that, right? How do you kind of make that decision whether it fits you or not? Because I love that you've you've said before, it's like, you know the mission of bounty jobs, right? And so, and it's like that mission matched your values, and you're like, let's go. And so, like, what do you kind of use when you're evaluating new opportunities in your career that kind of give you the go, no go as you move along?

Unknown: 21:15

Yeah, absolutely. So there is a lot of professional evaluation that goes into it, of course, right, like what directions you want to go, things you want to learn, and things like that. But I think too often people also misplace or put on the back burner the personal considerations. I've had opportunities come up where everything looked amazing on paper, but it wasn't the right time for me, at that moment in my life, because of whatever was going on, or, you know, anything at the time. So really, I encourage people to look at the full picture, because if you're not setting yourself up for success, excuse me, and asking all the questions and getting the full scope of things. Then, you know, it's, again, you're just not setting yourself up for success there. And there's so many different things. We're humans at the end of the day, I know I keep saying that, no, but

Erin Geiger: 22:10

it's so true, and it's, you're right. There's so many dynamics to look at. It's not just the salary, the benefits, you know, the stability of the company, you know, that sort of a thing. It's like, this is your life. You spend more time at work than you do otherwise, you know. And so, to your point, it's like, yeah, looking at the big picture of like, okay, is this company? Like, are the values match mine? Is it something that's at least partially of interest, you know, to what I want to do is, you know? And does it work with my lifestyle? Does it? You know? Does it give me enough time with my family? You know, all of those things should ideally. I mean, it's sort of like a privilege, right? When you can say yes or no to a job based upon, oh, it doesn't fit my schedule, there's, there's some times when that doesn't right, and it's, you have to be realistic, and it's like, I need the salary right now, you know? And that's kind of another way to look at it too, right? Some jobs are like a bridge to something else. It's just your thing for right now. And I, and I think, you know, I encourage people to kind of look at it that way too, of like, sometimes it's not the ideal situation, but it's okay for right now. And it's like a little bridge to what's next. You know what I mean?

Unknown: 23:22

100% Yeah. And that's what I mean by, you know, it's also a personal evaluation and a personal choice. Sometimes you have the luxury, sometimes you don't, right?

Erin Geiger: 23:31

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I mentioned earlier how you are so personable and like you're so you have high level of empathy, which I love. And you, you did mention like I am so I'm open with my team. Like, look, I excel in these things and these things, not so much. Call me out on it. Let's collaborate. And the same with your team. They're great at some things that some things, that's so as a leader, how do you kind of, like balance that you're like, so driven, but then you also, I think it's a beautiful combination of, like, this high level of ambition and drive, but then you're also have a level of empathy and humanness, so, and I think a lot of leaders aspire to that. So talk a little bit about that. You know, as you kind of balance all that, as you're leading your team,

Unknown: 24:20

absolutely so you're right. My mentality is, go, go, go. Never let it settle, always keep moving. Yeah, and I do have deep empathy for those around me, but at the same time, I can very much lack empathy for myself, and that can create shortcomings in those around me and how I could be making them feel right. So as as I've developed into leadership positions and things of that nature, I frankly, spent a lot of time and effort into slowing myself down and listen. It beneficial for me too. My therapist love that I'm doing this, being able to appreciate what I have accomplished and what I have in the morning. Moment and not just always be looking forward, but making sure that I'm also giving that support, the kudos, the high fives to my teams, to cross departmental teams, instead of just saying, you know, okay, good job. What's next? Because it's all you know that maybe that's all I personally need in the moment, but it's not fair to say that's what all everyone else needs, or that's not important to say that and do more of appreciating the moment that you're in and what you've just accomplished.

Erin Geiger: 25:30

Yeah, so looking at each person on your team as their own person, and like, what motivates them, right? And like, what, what do they individually need to move forward. Yeah, I get that. And so a lot of times we are given these, like, KPIs and these, like, mess, you know, like, it's like, here's the growth metric. This is what we're hitting this quarter, like this, you know? And it's like, okay, great, you know. But it's like, you also, like we were talking about, need to say people centered, and so, but you have this business pressure, but then you have the people. And so how do you marry the two, you know, like these goals and these quotas and these numbers, but then you're, you're leading this team. And so how have you, kind of, like, crossed that hump? And I know it's like, it's always a challenge, right? You know? And it's like, we have to hit these things, but then also, these are people with lives and things going on, you know? And so how do you kind of merge the two?

Unknown: 26:30

Yeah, so, I mean, at the end of the day, those are, we're on a revenue team, right? We're part of the revenue side of the business, so we have to hit those numbers in order for the lights to stay on. There's no two ways about it. But if we take it back to the whole trust and authenticity and consistency and psychological psychological safety part of it, you know that also it allows you to have fun in it too. It's not always so rigid, and there are things that we can control or influence, and there's things that we can't but if we have the right people in the right roles at the right time, and we have that psychological safety and trust, then we're enjoying what we're doing. We're enjoying doing it together. And therefore it's going to be easier to strategize, to proactively act instead of only reactively, and know that at the end of the day, whatever those ROI outcomes are, the KPIs outcomes, that we've gone all out and we've left it on the table, and we've accomplished everything that you know you humanly possibly could. And that's, that's a great team, yeah.

Erin Geiger: 27:41

And it's, you know, it's, it's everybody in lockstep, linking arms, going after a common goal together, you know? And I think that so many times that the issue is like people just like, are siloed. And, you know, that's that makes it tough, right, to move forward. So really, really does, yeah. And then would you say it's kind of similar, like, when you're looking at the company level, right? So we've been talking a lot about, like, being a leader of a team within an organization, and so when you look at like company wide, would you say it's kind of similar, like, seeing the potential and people like, I, I had this manager once in my career, and there was someone on our team who I was like, Oh, they're they need some help. They need some support. And this manager saw it and but they were so great that they were like, yes, but this person has the interest and the drive to learn. So I am going to support this person into becoming like, you know, kind of like growing into the role that they are currently in. It'd be very easy to manage this person out, right, but instead they were like, but no, we see this person is trying and they're interested, and we do see that there is potential there. So it's like, you know, how can companies get better at that? You know, it's like seeing the potential and the people, you know, rather than just a number on a sheet kind of a thing,

Unknown: 29:17

yeah, that is it's hard to do, right? And I talk a lot about that too, using the terms like skill and will. So somebody that doesn't have the skill, but they have the will and the desire to go and try this or learn this, that's great, like, we can work with that, right? There's other versions of it that don't lead itself to being as like, forward moving, but that was one of the things that I really loved about plum, my current company, when I found this opportunity. It's about, again, understanding the person behind the work and really not trying to pigeonhole because of, you know, this is what I do. This is how I do it. This is what the company. Does. It's like, take let's take a step back. Let's mentor and have conversations and understand where this other person is coming from. Because, just because they're approaching something differently, or they're not seeing the same results that you are, or you know, there's any sort of conflict there, it doesn't mean that it's being done wrong. This is an opportunity to understand that person, and again, how they approach the work and their thought process, and therefore how you can best support them,

Erin Geiger: 30:31

right, exactly. And I love that skill, skill and will that's actually pretty perfect. So there are listeners, and you know, most of our our audience are women, so who, you know you mentioned earlier in the conversation, like, sometimes we box ourselves in, sometimes we're we're put in a box, right? So for those women listening who who are feeling maybe underestimated or they're boxed in by their current roles, but they have the skill and the will and they have the ambition, and they're like, this is not where I should be, you know. So what advice would you give them, you know, about, like, really, kind of advocating for their their own potential and their in their own future? Because, as we spoke about earlier, it's like, if you don't make the moves yourself, like, it's pretty rare situation where someone's going to come to you tap you in the shoulder and be like, Hey, I see you. I see your potential. You should be up over here. Come on, you know. And it's like you gotta stick up for yourself and make your your own moves. So what advice do you have for those that are dealing with that right now?

Unknown: 31:34

Yeah, so being proactive, right? Just goes back to what we were talking about earlier. And if you're interested in something, then do your own research and understanding. And you know you there's so many tools out there now for you to help yourself in that, and then also finding community and network. So it's kind of the same idea as far as that's concerned, right? Like, don't be afraid to take a leap. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. There is no growth in comfortability. And it's not a failure, it's just a learning opportunity, right? Like you said before, maybe you will go into something different or learn about something, and you thought you were going to be really passionate about it, and now you realize that you're actually not interested in this at all. You want to leave it in the dust, and that's totally fine, but it's, I think about just taking the leap, and, you know, having the confidence in yourself, and, you know, not being afraid to kind of put it out there, yeah.

Erin Geiger: 32:33

And some companies have, like, mentorship, you know, opportunities, right? And so it's kind of connecting into that, like talking to someone you know in a totally different realm, if that's what you're interested in, if your company doesn't have that, like, to your point, it's like you can find people and message them at your company within another industry, what have you. And so I'm curious. Like, so you're in, you know, the HR world, like, what, how has it changed? Like, and what challenges, I mean, you've been through covid After covid, like, the whole thing. What changes have you seen in HR? Like, what challenges do you see now that got the kind of impact in that industry and what you're what you're dealing with?

Unknown: 33:19

Yeah, there's been so many changes. Throughout the last decade and a half. Oh my gosh. And it was, honestly, it's interesting how similar it was in fashion and fashion tech and HR tech too. If we want to strip it all down at the core, these are industries and businesses that have been around for years and decades and so long. So when our companies in that space or industries is really easy to fall into the well, this is just how we've always done it stuck way of a place, right? And therefore the innovation and improving processes and things like that and just be a harder Lift There's, there's so much to like the DE and I initiatives or non initiatives. Now, unfortunately, um, there's also so much change in the jobs and the workforce and the skills that are needed, right? So the half life of certain skills. That used to be five years. Then it went down to two, and now we're looking at six months in some areas. You know, it doesn't matter that you could code Python anymore. Now I don't want you to learn this new thing, and it's almost less about the skills and the knowledge and what you know, and more about your own talents, your own adaptation, your own resilience and ability to move as quickly with these changes and again, learn and adapt as needed, because right now, it's moving at such an unprecedentedly fast pace, it can be hard to keep up.

Erin Geiger: 34:59

Yeah. Right, for sure, and it's like, how is, how is AI impacted what you do, absolutely.

Unknown: 35:07

So that's the hard thing with customer success, right? Because it's so personal, and we're with our customers day in and day out, and what works for one maybe doesn't work for the other. And what really sets a lot of customer experience teams apart is that, you know, personal relationship and understanding of one another, but at the same time, there are so many, as long as we're, you know, open to it, and we need to learn about it and take those leaps. Right so many ways that AI can help to streamline processes, to make things more efficient, not just for the customer, customers, but for the CX teams themselves, and that then allows you, and frees up you as a person of your time to make those, make sure that those, those personal connections don't slip. But there's just, there's so many opportunities to be able to make things just work better, more streamlined, faster, more intuitively, so that you can spend more time on, you know, again, the people and the relationships and the growth and exploring other areas for further innovation.

Erin Geiger: 36:16

Yeah, that's the thing with customer experience, because the, I mean, the person is at the focus point, you know, like and what you do so much, you know, more than so many other industries. And so it's like leveraging AI as a tool like you said to, you know, give you more time to give that personal touch on the the moments that really matter. Right on the issues that really matter, yeah,

Unknown: 36:44

not about automating the whole customer experience process. It's about, you know, making, like you said, making the time so that, as for example, you scale as an organization, you scale in your own job, your own career, that you then have the time to do all of those other things that you want to do and build and grow and innovate, because doing things you know, how you did them last year versus how you're doing them now, it's not going to fit anymore. You need to give yourself that time back. And that's a lot of where AI comes in.

Erin Geiger: 37:18

Yeah, what excites you as you look forward, you know, like when you look forward in your career, in general, and then also, like in customer experience, like, what are you most, you know, excited or passionate about for what's to come?

Unknown: 37:34

I, especially when we're talking about, you know, AI, right? And then affording it, affording us as individual, myself, as a leader, to then dive deeper into other areas of the business and focus on other things, and you know, myself and growth in the company, all you know, all which ways, that's what really excites me. Because I always feel like there's so much more that can be done. You know, I'm very big on again, acting proactively rather than reactively. That's how you're going to get the best experience, how you get this result, especially in CX. But we don't always have the time for that, so using AI, not only to give us time back, but then to help us to maybe gather customer information, to weave stories together more purposefully, to help us tell these stories and make an impact to our customers as we're speaking to them, to prospects, as you know we're working the sales on that side of things, and being able to make it so much more personal and and specific for that person and that client, that customer. That's what's getting so powerful. And it's not about just, you know, putting something together and saying, Oh, I understand you. Please buy this product. Please expand with us. It's a true caring and understanding, and the ability to get that information, digest it, make it make sense, put it all together, is something that would historically take a very long time for a person to do manually, but with all of these innovative, innovative measures that are coming out. It makes it so much easier to do that. And therefore, again, care about the individual,

Erin Geiger: 39:27

yeah, and I think that's one of the main differentiators, right? It's like getting to the crux of that story. Because so many people, they're like, oh, it's the same thing. Like, this is what our product is. This is the problem the customer had. This is how they applied the product. This is the end result, you know, and it's like, okay,

Unknown: 39:46

exactly. Not effective, right? So, every like, every, for example, every customer that comes like, again, I know how the product works. I know where we can afford to make some. Um, you know, customization versus what we cannot what we cannot provide any flexibility on. But at the end of the day, I my guidance as a leader to the team or to the customer, it really doesn't mean anything if I don't understand the business and each customer and each person is going to be a little bit different, right? So let me understand you, and understand your business first, and your needs, what's important to you, why you've come here, what you're looking to solve for what you've tried in the past, what works right now, what doesn't. And then how can that be applied appropriately, to, say, our technology or our processes, to make it the most valuable for you. And so you see the most ROI,

Erin Geiger: 40:43

yeah, yeah, for sure. So as you're kind of like juggling this, you know, high powered career, all the things you're into in New York, all the things you have going on, like, Is there things you do in your day to kind of keep you going right? Like, some people work out, or they meditate, or they whatever. You know, there's so many different things. Is there anything that you do in particular? Some people have told me, No, I just get up and I start my day. And that's fine, too. Just curious.

Unknown: 41:11

No great question. And so I've built competitive story strategies for the things that drain me. Some of that is the just open, honest communication that we were talking about earlier, and having that understanding of your yourself too, quite frankly, and being able to communicate that effectively. But there are things that, again, in the work day that just drain me. I know things that are thriving, that I wake up excited to do I'm, first of all, I am social, and I love doing podcasts and having these conversations like this is fun for me. What's not fun is maybe all the admin work that I have to do at the end of the week or that needs to get done on a Wednesday morning before I can attack my day, or the slide decks that need to be presented and put together and notes and HubSpot and putting together training material for my team and all of those things. So I know you're not gonna be able to see it in this podcast, but Aaron behind me, you can see that there is a big, giant medicine ball. So when I have things like that that I need to do, I know I'm going to be so just unfocused if I don't replace my chair with that medicine ball, sit on it, put my headphones in, place the music, and just like power through the task at hand. That's how I'm going to be able to get through these kind of tedious, boring admin things that don't excite me, but they need to get done right some way or another. So scheduling the time in my calendar and in my day for those things, and then doing quirky little things like sitting on a medicine ball and into music and bouncing like a weirdo in my home office while I'm doing it actually works really well.

Erin Geiger: 42:55

Yeah, no, I actually love that I know because the the medicine ball, that's amazing, or that, you know, the the ball. And then I've seen that in classrooms too. For my kid, it was like, some of the teachers will have those, you know, around, and I'm like, wow, it just makes such a huge difference just to have that the body in motion, you know, I think that just helps move everything forward. Some people have, like, the standing desks, or the the walking paths, like, you know, all the things, and

Unknown: 43:21

it's my next thing. Yeah, that's, I think that's what I need next.

Erin Geiger: 43:26

It's, I think it's so true. Just like our bodies need motion, they need movement, you know, and everything that we do. So if people want to connect with you, where's the best place to find you online?

Unknown: 43:41

Well, you can come to my LinkedIn. Jordan Lee Lea, that's gonna be the easiest place to find me.

Erin Geiger: 43:48

Okay, awesome. We'll put a link to that in the show notes. And I always ask this kind of fun question of every single guest, because I love music. Oh no, I know if you could listen to only one music artist for the rest of your life. Who would it be?

Unknown: 44:07

That is a tough question, and I have a very eclectic taste in music. Yeah, I'm gonna go with Abba. You know, we're fun. We're Boppy. It has music for all kinds of moods. I love it. That's also a a top go to of putting on my headphones when I'm on my medicine ball powering through work.

Erin Geiger: 44:30

That's so cool. I love it. Okay, very cool. I haven't listened to them in a while. I need to, need to

Unknown: 44:36

crack that a bit reminder. You need to tap in, breathe out, and then, yeah.

Erin Geiger: 44:42

Well, Jordan, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed having you on in this conversation, especially in the world that we're living in now, I think that this is such, you know, an important topic to, you know, to tackle, you know, as far as the people, the peopleness of people, and. In the workplace and everything so but yeah, thank you so much for taking the time. Super appreciate it.

Unknown: 45:05

Yeah, thank you so much, Aaron. I really appreciate you having me on bye.