Welcome everybody to this episode of clover. I am actually talking to a fellow Austinite. I guess I can call myself an Austinite. I've been here over 10 years. Marina. Kay, welcome Marina to Clover. Thank you. Erin, nice to be here. And we were just talking that she and I will actually meet in person this Sunday. This will come out after but it is International Women's Day coming up on Sunday, and we are both going to the same event that day about the who's who of women leading and building in Austin. So super excited for that coming up. I should actually put a link in the show notes to that the founders and the organization around it, in case we want to learn more. But yeah, so typically, Marina, I do kick off these episodes just, I always love to know the journey you know, of you know, how women on the show kind of get like, how they started out, when they what they went through along the way. We can dive deeper into those aspects. But if you kind of just want to give us the lay of the land, as far as your career journey, and any kind of, like, personal insights of how you got to where you are today, that would be great. Yeah, absolutely. So today I describe myself as an executive coach and evolving into a little bit of a business matchmaker. I'll talk about that in a little bit, but executive coaching is what I've been doing for the past six years, and the foundation of my coaching is actually breath work and nervous system health. So I use that with women who are professionals, entrepreneurs, busy moms, anyone who is really feeling the pressure of both, you know, juggling work and maybe scaling a company and also just being a multi passionate woman, I resonate with that. I do a lot. I have a lot of different interests, and I'm constantly learning and growing and evolving into how can I hold it all and kind of expand my vessel for all the things that I want to do in this lifetime, which are many so nervous system resilience and just placing well being at the forefront of what I do is really relevant to me. And when people ask me why I started to do this, I always say it's been out of necessity. So I used to be a corporate leader. I did HR consulting for a number of years, so working with actual boardrooms of executives, and just me there consulting them on their business processes in human resources. And then I transitioned to we work, and I was at the headquarters for a couple of years during the full rise and fall, everything that you see in the documentary. I was there for that. A lot of my co workers are in the background of some of those scenes. So seeing that really actually drove home the necessity of placing yourself first at the center of your life and your well being. That was definitely not something that was talked about very much, especially before the pandemic. I think that was one of the silver linings of the pandemic, is things like therapy and coaching and taking care of yourself and getting massages and acupuncture and all the things that you know we really need to be at our best. It started to be talked about a little bit more at that point. So during those times, I was super burnt out. It was a really exciting time. There's not too much actually bad things that I could say about my corporate experience, other than the toll that it took on my body at the time, and now I help women build and scale companies without that component of burnout and constantly just figuring out, how do we be passionate about what we're doing while still taking care of ourselves? Yeah, it's so needed. And I did watch that we work documentary and wow, it's been quite a time when you were there. I asked this question because there's so many people listening that are probably going through you may be a similar thing on a different scale. Did you have tools, you know, to kind of get you through that kind of tumultuous time at WeWork and other aspects of your career before you started? Like, how did, how did you deal with those things when you were in the moment, and then how did you cultivate these kind of tools to get you through? Yeah, so one thing through my own personal development journey that I learned is that people make change out of inspiration or desperation. I wish it wasn't. So I wish more people just took action on being inspired and. Wanting to just feel better, right? And that my desire is that bad things don't have to happen to us before we are ready to change. That wasn't the case for me. So for me, it was this kind of incremental gaining of awareness and understanding what's going on and how it's unsustainable, and then picking up tools along the way. So for the first three years of my career, totally unaware of mind, body health. I was still, you know, someone who drank a lot on the weekends, and I lived in Chicago, in the Bay Area, in New York, that was just kind of how we dealt with the stress, right? Unknowingly. And it kind of all caught up, or started to catch up. There was one specific trip that I always go back to and talk about when I was still in consulting. It was a Minneapolis client, and I was there all by myself. It was like the peak of winter, just so many stressful things stacked on top of the other. And it was like a really stretchy assignment for me. It must have been 24 at the time, and it was literally just me and about 25 executives of a fortune 500 team. And that didn't go well for 24 year old, year old Marina at the time. So I came back, and that was the point where I started to notice heart palpitations and just a lot of anxiety like it built up and really kind of peaked that week to the point where I'd never felt it before. And I always go back to this trip, because coming back, my roommate and good friend of the time, Krista, and I were talking about this, and I was like, This is what I'm feeling, what's going on. And she's like, I think you have anxiety. And I have the screenshot of me going, what's anxiety in our text thread? And fast forward, I was, you know, starting to research all the vitamins and herbs, and, like, you know, got myself an ashwagandha supplement, and I was like, okay, good. My bases are covered. This will take care of the anxiety, which, of course, we now know is not the whole picture, yeah, but that was this moment that kind of catalyzed that awareness, and I started to more actively pay attention to okay, this is how I'm feeling when I work a 12 hour day. This is how I'm feeling when I'm traveling back to back for a client. And maybe it's just feeling like this mounting pressure. It was interesting, because I, you know, I felt really well respected, and I loved my teams. I loved my managers. I was so blessed with, like, everyone I've ever worked with in corporate. So that wasn't the issue. It was really this load, like, this heavy load that I felt like all of this responsibility and underneath it all, also through that Minneapolis trip, what I realized, I just remember asking myself, they are at the client site, like, is this all there is right? Is this what I got my master's degree for? Is this what we're all sacrificing our entire days and weekends for, like, for this job, right? That is kind of the focal point of all of life, right? I mean, for me in my early 20s, it was really just like, work and then some time with friends, and then work, and then some time with friends. So talk about, like, not feeling connected to myself, or, you know, a larger purpose, we'll call it, or, like, hobbies, anything like that, right? That wasn't really part of the picture. So then throughout the next couple of years, I started to really look into, okay, what is holistic health, right? Starting to look at nutrition and reducing things like caffeine and incorporating more of the Mind Body practices, just kind of like dripping that right into this picture of stress. So that was helpful to a point, until we work it really was, again, revealing, like, okay, the pressure is only increasing, right? I always tell people like, you're only ever going to get busier really. Like, you know when people search for the perfect moment to do XYZ, the perfect moment to go on a retreat, or, you know, do something for themselves. And they're like, no, like, next year, it'll be better, but the next year arrives and we just have more on our plate. And so when I transitioned to WeWork and started to live in New York, that was when I first got my yoga teacher training. And I always tell people, this is, like yoga teacher training is the gateway to the rest of health. It is this like gateway drug, where you're like, oh, I can feel so much better. I can be so much more connected. It's this interconnection between the mind and mindfulness and the body, and I'm sleeping better, and I'm just feeling more kind of confident in how I carry myself. So from that, I hopped over and got my health coach training. That was about a year and a half in total there that I was doing at the same time as I was at WeWork. And then it kind of progressed from there. I always say, okay, like from that point on, it's just kind of one thing led to another. And. And I found myself in a totally different career, while also honoring that background, and a lot of the people that I work with now are in that environment, or come from that corporate, high demand, high stress environment. So I'm actually really grateful for this kind of full circle coming back and having that experience myself. So if you have a stressful job, do yoga training on the side, but beware, because you might leave it entirely right, exactly. So we laugh when it's like, okay, what is anxiety, right? But I mean, what are some signs, you know, because some people might be experiencing it, and they haven't put a label on it. I know, you know, recently, I was having some symptoms of anxiety, and then I was like, Oh, wait, it's tied to this thing called my nervous system. And then I started researching that, and it was just like, kind of mind blowing to me to finally make the connection of, like, what I was doing with my body also fed into my nervous system and anxiety. So what are some signs that people should kind of look for to be like, Oh, maybe you are experiencing anxiety, and maybe you know there are steps that you should be taking to kind of help nurture yourself in that area. Yeah, it's such an important question, and it's also really nuanced, because I do find that a lot of people, especially a lot of women, will experience it in different ways, and I'm gonna kind of share what those are and what I see. But, you know, putting and just thinking about anxiety as a whole, what's happening is our body is under a lot of stress, and this is a response that's being created that's taking energy away from other parts of the body. So for example, things like fertility. We know those decline when we're under a lot of stress and feeling some of that pressure. We know our digestion isn't as great. We know that our skin shows high stress, high just over, over engagement of the nervous system, right? Feeling that overwhelm for a long period of time. So anxiety is this big response, and it's designed that way for a purpose, right? When something is stressful, our body wants us to pay attention to that. It's just that these days, a lot of us are feeling that stress and pressure. It's just every single day, it's, it's, you know, we don't often catch a break from it. And so anxiety sits at the center of a lot of our days. Anxiety, stress, feeling the overwhelm and the pressure and it like slowly saps and borrows energy from other parts of the body, right? And this is what we really want to be mindful of. So I would say a few symptoms and signals that someone can look for is for sure, things like brain fog, right? So impacts on your mind and on your focus. So that might be telling us that, because of that engagement of the nervous system and creating this signal of unsafety, of anxiety, maybe you are using so much energy in that process in your body that you actually need to be nourishing more, and you're not eating enough, right? It can literally come down to like someone is undernourishing themselves, is not eating enough calories or not taking in the right nourishment. And so that creates downstream impacts, like brain fog, like inability to focus for, you know, extended periods of time, feeling unproductive. All of that can come down to right, is your body well resourced? Are you well nourished? Having a difficulty to fall asleep? I think that's a really big signal, because if we are in that state of you know, I can't turn my mind off. A lot of times I hear that language, right? I just lie awake and my mind races through all the things that were left unfinished or that I could have done better, and everything that I have to do tomorrow. That's probably one signal that we just don't want to live with that too long, right? If that's been going on for a really long time, that's something to be mindful of, if it happens, right? If you have one stressful day a week or a handful of those, right, a month, not such a huge deal. But if it's something that you're like, Yeah, I've lived this way for years. I always lie awake until midnight or when I am and then I'm just trying to, like, catch the most sleep that I can get on the other end of that, then that's for sure, something to pay attention to. I think digestion is another really big signal, especially for women, again, just what I see across clients. So things like experiencing indigestion, irregular bowel movements, right? Or just feeling like a lot of us eat on the go, or we eat really fast, so that's certainly a contributing factor. But just in general, noticing, like, am I taking in food and processing it and like, it's not an additional source of discomfort in my life, right? Because a lot of times people will notice the bloating, indigestion. In really slow, long, prolonged bowel movements, like time between and just in general. Also, you know, some of us are impacted in a way where we under eat. Some of us are impacted in a way that we overeat. So it's just kind of, you know, luck of the draw, how anxiety presents itself to different people, and so that's something to be mindful of, right? Have I noticed that I maybe used to eat really well and digest my meals really well, and I would have, like, three nourishing meals a day, and I would be able to stomach that, but now, like, I have no appetite in the morning, that's actually another important nutritional signal as well. A lot of women will say, you know, I'm just not hungry in the morning, or I'm not hungry, or I eat my first thing, my first meal at 11am big signal, because especially for women who are of childbearing years, and for sure, all the way through menopause and, of course, after but especially for those of us in our childbearing years, we want to be eating a breakfast or at least something nourishing within 30 minutes of waking up. And so if that signal isn't there, if that request for nourishment isn't there, that might tell us that it's been suppressed for some time. And so it's this kind of, it's, it's a hard conversation, because some women get used to it so much. They're like, No, you know, I haven't really had a morning appetite in like, years. It's like, okay, well, can you think back to a time when you did have breakfast, maybe at least in college, or, like, shortly after college, right? How did that go for you? And then at what point did that get turned off? A lot of times it's like the caffeine or carb first thing in the morning is the only thing that we can stomach at that point. Again, I would say that's a pretty big signal that something is off as far as digestion goes. And a lot of times that's also related to the nervous system functioning. So I would say those are kind of like the big ones that maybe aren't immediately thought of, like, oh, there's this chronic anxiety or latent stress that's going on underneath it. But a lot of times that's what it's kind of stemming from. Yeah, it's so interesting because, you know a few of those, you're right. I don't think they're ones that would be top of mind for people when they think, Oh, this might be presenting itself as an signal of anxiety, you know. So people might be like, oh, yeah, when I was younger, you know, breakfast for sure. But now I'm just not, like, a really a breakfast person, you know. And so you kind of like, talk yourself into these things of like, oh, that's just not me. I just don't do that. And it's like, okay, well, why and why the shift? And then as far as the sleep goes also, and I've, I've had this too, where I can fall asleep just fine. It's staying asleep, that's the issue, right? So getting up at like, three, 4am and then the mind goes and then it's hard to get back into sleep. I think for me, was a signal of my personal anxiety, of like, why am I waking up in the middle of the night? And then, you know, constantly thinking about and everything just seems worse the middle of the night, right? And then during the day, when you think about those things, you're like, not that bad, you know. But like, 4am you're like, This is the worst thing ever, you know. And then you start to feel that anxiety in your chest, you know. Yeah, the thing so, so I appreciate you mentioning those things, because maybe someone listening will be like, oh, wait a second. You know, I my indigestion, my digestion isn't great. And I think as we age as well, sometimes you put it on that, oh, well, I'm I'm getting older, and this, my body is changing Exactly, yeah, I think that's another really big one too, that, you know, there's all of these commonly accepted things that especially we as women carry, especially like professional women, because usually we're really resilient and mentally strong, like it takes a lot for a woman to excel in. I'll still call it a more male dominated space, right? I work with a lot of women who are in law and in finance and again, even just being a founder, right? I mean, you are all functions, at least at the beginning, so it just takes a lot of mental resilience. However, it's the fact that our bodies are sometimes built differently, right? It's like, and I noticed this even with myself and so many people in my life, it's like, we're so strong and smart and capable, and we're so interested and curious and passionate and we want to make the world a better place. But then it just comes down to, can our body really keep up with all of that, and what can we do to support it, right? And so a lot of the you know, I see like, limiting beliefs pop up of like, Yeah, this is just how people feel. This is just how women feel at a certain age, or, you know, menstrual cramps. Let's just take that, right? It's like, oh yeah, the severity is just something that is just kind of a given, right? We all have cramps, we all have PMS, we all have these really severe symptoms. No, that's another symptom of chronic stress. Of being undernourished, of too much caffeine, all of these are symptoms of other problems. They're not just this, like, that's not how our bodies are designed to function, right? And the one that you touched on, right? It's like, we, you know, we just get older. Well, that's not the case. What's happening there as we get older, is what's known as just mitochondrial decline, right? We don't mitochondria don't produce enough energy, but that's for a reason. That's not a given, right? And so again, coming back to sleep, to nourishment, to taking care of our nervous system, to targeted, maybe really specific for you, supplementation, right, finding mineral or vitamin deficiencies. You know now I'm a big believer on in things like peptides. I think they're gonna really just keep coming more and more into prominence and research. And I'm excited by that, because I think there's a lot that's possible there. But really knowing that, like however you've been feeling, if it's not your best, isn't how you're supposed to be feeling. It's not how you have to keep feeling. And there's things that you can do to put in place, right? Either? Stories of women overcoming things like endometriosis, those constantly break my heart, just because there's so much, so little research, so little that's accepted about, you know, something as impactful as something like endometriosis, and we'll we'll still overcome that, right? We'll find the answers. We'll work with the right doctors, and will feel so much better, whether it's menopause, whether it's our cycles, whether it's the brain fog, right, or sleeping in, you know, a suboptimal way. I always tell people like our body wants to heal. That was a core learning from my health coach, training our body always is looking for the path towards healing and feeling better. So it's like, as soon as you have your last alcoholic beverage as soon as you have your last right, a food that inflames you and isn't for you, like the moment after your body is looking for healing and is working towards that. So yeah, that's just maybe a reminder for anyone who hasn't been feeling your best that especially now, I think it's a really exciting time to be in women's health. There's so much that we're learning every single year. So just you know, stick with it, the research, the support, right? The podcast, the conversations are all out there is what I always want to remind women, yeah, and it's like, you touch on alcohol, you mentioned alcohol a couple of times, and it's, it's, that's one of the things that I found recently, like i A few weeks ago, I decided to let me cut out alcohol, you know, and see. Because I was like, Oh, it kept coming back as one of the things you know that can negatively impact your nervous system. And I never made the connection between that and anxiety. I don't know why, you know and so, but yeah, like, I would have, you know, drinks with friends on the weekends or dinner with my husband on Friday night and, you know, that sort of a thing. And it was just like, yeah, have a skinny Margarita. Or like, yeah, that glass of wine, you know. And then it would impact my sleep. And then I would, you know, wake up, not feeling great, and, you know, and I'm like, why am I this is not serving me? Why am I doing it? And then I it kept coming up in my research as well. And I was like, This is crazy. Like, why? Yeah, you know. And I was laughing with my my therapist recently, I was like, and I chose to do it in a time when it's trendy, because now there's, like, all these mocktails and, you know, and everything going on. So it's like, Yay, but, but yeah. So, you know, I think there's probably a lot of people out there just like, okay, what can I do in my life to to help nourish and nurture that mind body connection and kind of understand and help regulate the nervous system. And may not make the connections like I didn't readily make with things that I was doing in my in my life, that I just thought was just what you did. You had a glass of wine, you know? Yeah, I didn't think of it as anything more serious than that, you know. So it's interesting. And also, I'm like, how did you, so you have, you know, your work kind of centers on the nervous system and breath work and but when you talk about executives and venture and startups, and that is not readily in that language. So like, how, how did you, how do you make that introduction, you know, to that like, how did you bring that perspective into those spaces? And whereas was that readily welcome, or, you know, or do you still kind of get, you know, pushbacks probably the wrong word, but you know, is it if people are just like, receptive to it right away, or how do you kind of introduce it in those areas? Yeah. Yeah, I think especially when I chose breath work, I had this, these moments of, like, really, years of bargaining with myself. It's like, really, this is my thing. This is what I'm going to bring to the world. And then, of course, right, every time I work with someone new, or I host an event, and I get the feedback, and people are like, wow, this was profound. I've never felt this way before. What else can I do? How does this work? This is your gift. And I was like, Okay, I'm listening. I got it. It's not super comfortable to go from, you know, being seen as this one archetype and this one career to something entirely different, but at the same time, you know, that was maybe four or five years ago. Now, having had so many clients and so much experience, and, you know, having created content for a number of years around it, and just being very vocal like I think at this point, pretty much everyone from my life is caught up to what I do. So it's a little bit less, let's say, scary or uncomfortable in that regard. But really, my new kind of thesis that's emerging is that it doesn't have to be separate, like these two worlds of taking care of yourself and the venture capital executive boardroom space. And that's really what I'm working on now, is bridging those two parts of what I do, right and my background. And I think of it as being a bridge between the practical and the mystical. And I call breathwork mystical, because it really can be. I always lead with a functional ankle, like, what's going on in the body, our nervous system, you know, physical tension release, learning how to breathe in a spacious way. It's almost like mobility training for a lot of us, because we're stuck in patterns of breathing that don't support us. When we sit at a desk or drive or just talk, the way we carry our body, quite literally, for many of us, is not conducive to deep breathing, and that creates these patterns of anxiety and stress that are chronic. Our breath is so powerful. I always remind people that. So I always lead with that functional and really practical angle. But also, if you do a breath work session with me, where we are continuously and intentionally modifying the way you're breathing for an hour or longer. I just had one earlier today. I do these here in Austin. I have women's experiences around breath work. A lot of the women who will be there on Sunday have participated. When we breathe in that way, it opens the door for something greater that I don't even really have the context to explain yet. I would love to study this in my lifetime and really understand where people will have these moments of connecting with their higher self, their purpose, their vision, they'll see what they need to do in their life. So decision making an intuition is a big component of my breath work practice because it helps us connect deeper with that so especially great and healing for those who have a lot on their plate and aren't sure what to do, like there's such an overwhelm of decisions you come into a breath work session, you breathe again in these very specific, patterned, intentional ways. A lot of people will walk out and be like, I know exactly what I need to do. So there again, is the usefulness, right? Kind of, like the everyday utility of this practice, not just for the body, but also for our life and for our business. And so I think of it in this, like mystical space I've had many women again, connect with, you know, their loved ones, their ancestors, whatever it is that they feel called to explain it as right, the visions that they have. You know, how they sleep after what they dream about, what comes through for them as they're journaling after a session? It's definitely this something greater experience, and yeah, you know, for the longest time, I had the separation of, like, My past is my past, and it has nothing to do with this new Wellness focus and the direction that I'm going with. You know, I'll be starting my podcast, and I'm definitely going to write a book at some point, and just speaking more on this topic, it was this, like, hard line separation. And now I'm like, wait a second, why would I create that separation? Like everybody who comes into a breathwork space, or who learns these tools with me is ultimately going to use them in their life, with their team, with their family, for decision making in their business. So now I'm actually working on this, like full integration of the two. So if someone is struggling with something in their business, I say, let's bring that into a session, and let's look at it from a different perspective, while also getting all of the physical benefits of the practice as well. Yeah, because in reality, I mean, you're right, like, for so long, I think we try to keep it separate, like our professional life and our personal. Life, and it's just like, did not work out very well, because it's like, in reality, those things are so intertwined. They're still you and they're still, you know, large facets of your life. And so it's like bringing them together. I think it's so smart. And, you know, a lot of us like operate in survival mode, almost. It's like we're just trying to get by and get through, rather than thriving in what we're doing. And so as you're working like with these female executives, in particular, founders, and they're starting to make that connection, is there a trend? Like, do you see things that start to shift first? Like, do you like? What changes do you tend to see in them once they're like, they're on their full they're on this journey, and things are happening, yeah, well, for anyone who is finding themselves in a situation that maybe isn't their calling, I'll say it can be really confronting, and I want to be like, honest about that With everyone, right? Like we might uncover that you actually don't want to scale this or don't want to keep on this track. You want to actually hop off this track and do something entirely different. And it's not up to us to change everything overnight. I think that's why people don't this is why people are apprehensive about trying out something like this, connecting with themselves, doing a retreat, meditating, because they know that something is out of alignment in life, and they know that once they try, that they'll have to actually be confronted about it and potentially do something about it. And yes, that's usually the case. We just don't have to do it all overnight, like my transition happened over years, and could it have been faster? Yes, you know, could I have been braver and maybe even more well equipped? Yes, but I'm also grateful for exactly how it unfolded, and all the steps and people and resources that I got along the way of transitioning from corporate into wellness now back to corporate, corporate wellness, whatever this, you know, integration and this kind of going forward, this chapter will look like for me. So, you know, sometimes it could be a really confronting step to take, and if ever that happens, I just let people know that they'll be fully supported that, you know, I have a network of women who are doing whatever you want to be doing. There's people in my network who are doing that. So whether it's connecting someone to the right communities, the right thought leaders, the right mentors, the right new opportunities like we can get resourceful and we can make any configuration of that happen, right? Whatever you need is possible. Someone else has done it. I might know them, someone else I know might know them, and we'll make it happen, right? We'll make it work in due time. I always invite people into like, that's not a reason to not take the step of taking care of yourself and understanding what you want to do. Right? Life is now. Like, it's not tomorrow. We all have this fallacy of, like, Well, I'll start next year, I'll start tomorrow, I'll start next month. But like, all we have is right now, like, literally this moment, listening to what we're talking about, is all we have. And so any amount that we can just start right now as we are and work forward and figure out whether it's symptoms we're experiencing. We're just feeling disconnected or not fulfilled like now is the time to really start to address that. When it goes maybe in a little bit less confronting way. A lot of times, people will just right away, start to experience more clarity, more expansion, more confidence, more readiness to tackle some of that backlog. I think a lot of us are carrying a backlog of tasks, of to do's, of ideas around like this heavy backpack. Actually think that backlog is what leads to the waking up in the middle of the night. So some people are, you know, maybe they're so stressed, there's so much going on, they just kind of like, crash at the end of the day, and they can fall asleep easier, but then we wake up and, you know, that swirl starts in the mind that usually tells me that there's a backlog of, you know, either responsibilities or things that someone feels are left unfinished, right? It's like we're carrying yesterday into today, and then we're doing that forever, like we're doing that perpetually. So one of the really nice things is in a breath work session, being able to come out of it and say, there's just these things that I'm not going to do, these things that I've been saying I want to do. I've been carrying them around. Maybe there's some comparison, or some shoulds that are coming along for the ride there that have been there for way too long. Like, I'm just going to put these down, and I'm not going to do them in my project management years at WeWork. And before it's so funny, in the system we used to use, such as Jira, there used to be a tag, right? It's like, done in progress, you know, whatever backlog, there's one tag that used to be called won't do. I've seen some teams use that, some technical teams. I will never forget that. I was like, What do you mean? We can just label a task won't do. Like, people are gonna see this, what is this label? Where does that go? And I was like, the audacity. And so I always invite people into that. It's like, what are some things in your life that you could just put down and just leave them, right? You don't have to do them. You don't have to be excellent in every single thing. You don't have to run a marathon this year, in addition to all of these other things that you're accomplishing, right? So, you know, clarity, confidence and ability to release things, and then again, going back to kind of like that, something greater component, maybe seeing events of the past in a different way. I think that's where, you know, something like breath work. I really think of it as a somatic therapy, meaning body based therapeutic modality. I don't want to collapse it with, you know, I'm not a therapist, and there's, of course, so much value in traditional talk therapy, but it differs in that there are some things that we actually don't need to talk about anymore. Maybe we've talked about them for a really long time, and we can just see them in a different way and release that from the body. On the somatic level, like physically. Why? I think we hold and store some of that stress, tension. Some of the things that get released is potentially our fascia. I think some energy and emotions get stored around our organs. I think different organs are susceptible to different emotions in different ways, again, kind of tying in my yoga background as well into that understanding. But sometimes there's just this release that happens. And people walk out of a session and they're like, oh, okay, that conversation that I had three months ago that's just been weighing heavy on me, you know, I didn't actually make a mistake there, you know, I really, like, stood my ground and I said what I wanted to say, and I don't have to keep replaying it over and over in my head. So that is another potential outcome and benefit there. Yeah, and, like, the, I love the way you kind of tie it into the science of it, you know, because I think some people think breath work, oh, it's so woo, woo. I can't, you know, like, how does this really apply to me? But you're like, No, that actually ties in quite scientifically, to, you know, our biology, you know, our mental health and all that is there. I mean, obviously people should, you know, learn the, I don't want to say complexity of breath work, but it's, it's, there's a lot to it, right? And it's like, they should work with someone like yourself, but is there like, a simple, you know, practice, like, maybe a short practice, if, like, during their day, if someone's going through and they're like, wait, I'm feeling, starting to feel anxiety. I'm starting to feel, you know, overwhelmed that they could, like, just stop during their day and and do and kind of feel a little bit of relief before moving on. Yeah. So the first thing I want to shout out is that I'm building an online community that's free, literally has a bank of practices and recordings that I've accumulated over the years that's just right there for you, so that's just on my website, and anyone can log in and start practicing certain things and trying them out in your body, because different things again, just how the symptoms differ. For some women, what supports you will also differ. And so we just want to be mindful of that, because breath work is this wide scope of what's possible. You know, we can breathe to feel more energy. We can breathe to feel relaxation. I can have someone breathe in a way that actually stimulates a panic attack, or I can have someone breathe in a way that completely reduces and relaxes the symptoms of a panic attack. We can have an impact on our heart directly, without moving a muscle. We could just stay seated as we are right now. We can modify the breath and create an impact on our heart, on our mind, on different parts of the body. So it's that powerful. So I would say, though, like just speaking generally, a few things that can be simple and helpful. If someone is experiencing a lot of stress, pressure, maybe someone is really meeting heavy, right? Goes kind of back to back between meetings throughout the day without so much of like a break even two to three minutes of connecting with your breath and noticing it and working with it can start to reduce the stress that you feel throughout the day, right? So imagine inserting like two minutes after your 9am meeting, two minutes after lunch or before lunch, couple more in the afternoon, and then maybe, like a five minute practice at the very end of the day. It just keeps you a lot steadier and calmer throughout so like those peaks of stress have a chance to wind down right. So a couple of my favorite things is the four six breath, not oftentimes. Talked about for whatever reason. People might have heard of the 478, breath. I think that one's just a lot more challenging. So 478, is popular. You inhale for four, you hold for seven, you exhale for eight. Again, for a lot of people who are highly stressed or feeling overwhelmed or especially if you're prone to anxiety, holding your breath is going to feel challenging, and it might actually just contribute to the stress that you feel, to the anxiety build up. So instead, I love to work with exhales. I work with exhales constantly. My podcast is about to be called the exhale because I am like, if I could just get the world to exhale deeper and really notice how we're breathing. As my life legacy, it'll be enough like I'll be happy. So the four six breath, I think, is a lot simpler, because you're going to inhale for a count of four and you're going to exhale for a count of six. So this is a core skill that everybody can remember longer exhales calm us down. So an inhale that usually brings energy into the body. So a lot of times we're doing breath work to create energy to you know, if you're a little bit deficient on sleep and you need a breath work practice to insert in the morning, you're probably going to work with inhales in some way. And then the opposite is true. If you're trying to relax, calm down, go to sleep. If you're trying to get a great night of sleep, wind down after a long day. You're going to work with exhales. And so the four six is kind of honoring that understanding our inhale is going to be slow, but it's going to be shorter, because we really want to focus on that long, spacious exhale, and it's going to be longer than the inhale. And you can keep that going like it could be any variation of that will work. So an inhale for two and exhale for four, an inhale for three and exhale for five, in for four out for six, or maybe even, like, in for six, out for eight, right? Like mirroring that is going to have that impact on the body, like the longer exhale is going to start to calm the body down. Literally, on a physiological level, it's acting on the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the part of the body and the nervous system that's responsible for relaxation. So I like that one because, again, it's it's usually pretty accessible to most people. It's not super challenging. So doing a few minutes of that between meetings is really great. And then, you know, something that I feel it's such a challenge for a lot of women is using our voice and working with our exhale in that regard, because a lot of times like these two things come hand in hand. So here's what I mean, someone who has a hard time with a deep exhale is probably storing a lot, right? They've probably chronically fallen out of practice of those long, spacious exhales. And it shows, it shows in the body. It shows in the heart rate. It shows in what's going on in the mind. And a lot of times, when I start to work with someone, I'll get them to work with exhales, as in, like, open mouth, spacious exhale. Let yourself linger on the HA, right. Let yourself feel good in the exhale, and even like trickling down and that ha sound toning the letter A is so healing, like I promise you, you know whoever's listening, if you just take a few moments, if maybe you're in your car, no one's listening, no one's around, you take a big inhale in through the nose, and then you just let yourself feel that slow exhale and the drop in the chest and shoulders like, and do that a few times, like as a practice, right? I see a lot of discomfort in women when we first start doing this, and the way I think of it is like give yourself permission to start to exhale in this way, and to hear that exhale, hear yourself, ah, right, and release that way. Hear yourself like tone the letter A, it's not Woo. What's happening is we're working with the vagus nerve. There's a part of the nervous system that runs from the brain stem, and it enervates. So it's connected that nerve ending from our brain through the neck and the spine to the heart, the lungs, the belly, the intestines and all the way down to the pelvic floor. So actually, when you work with exhales and especially sound, you're creating this gentle vibration inside the torso that can help start to calm all those parts of the body down. So if anyone's ever like tried to sound healing one once in a while, right? We don't usually have access to that, like at the end of the day, right? Maybe once a month, we can find something at a yoga studio near us that's really healing, because we feel those vibrations and they also travel through the body. When we're actually in the presence of a musical instrument or something that's creating that soothing vibration you can work with that internally right, that exhale, that calming sound, that toning different letters and different vowels, that really helps calm the body on an internal level, like viscerally inside of the chest and the torso, and so that could just be a nice practice, right? You're arriving somewhere. You're in your car, you're parking take some deep breaths where you actually, like fully release the exhale and let it go and actually hear it and feel that release. It's such a healing opportunity, such a healing option for so many women that's so helpful, you know, because I think we just rush through our day, and even like taking that, you know, even just a minute or two, not only will it kind of calm the person down, and they'll be more present and more intentional, you know, and the next aspect of their day, you know, instead of just putting blinders On and getting through it. So it has such has such a positive impact. The tentacles go far. You know, with that? Yeah, I could talk to you. I feel like we should have, like, a five parter or something. I could talk to you forever about this. There's so much we could dive into. If people want to connect with you online, what's the best way to do? So, yeah, it's women who breathe pretty much everywhere. So women who breathe.com that's where you'll see the link to join the community. That's free. So women who breathe.com is the website women who breathe on Instagram, Tiktok, Marina, K on LinkedIn. So if anyone is you know also maybe has a team and is looking to not just work one on one, but maybe you want to bring this to your team or your company or organization. I do lots of that. I do corporate workshops and retreats and just lots and lots of wellness options are kind of on the menu there. And yeah, joining the community is also just really easy. That's been my effort to download my brain and all of these helpful practices into one space. So it's free. The courses in the classroom in the community are all free. I have a somatic breath work recording on playlist. I have different mind body practices, different meditations that are there a journey on connecting with your intuition so that sparks anyone's interest. There's a whole hour long kind of step by step journey there. And then there's a paid tier there for group zoom based sessions so someone can practice just from home again, my effort and just making this more accessible for more women, perfect. We will include links to those people can get more information. And one last fun question I always ask everybody, which goes off on a little bit of a tangent here, is because I literally love music so much, and music can be so healing as well. If you can only listen to one music artist for the rest of your life, who would it be? Oh, my God, I love that question. That's so fun, huh? You know what I joke about is, in my Spotify, it's either Reiki chimes or bad bunny and nothing in between. I love that so much. That's like, choose your flavor of the day. You know, we're either listening to like a really loud fun, upbeat music, like bad bunny. I used to live in Latin America for three years too, three and a half actually, so that's part of that, or I'm getting fully Zen, and it literally Reiki chimes playlists. Yeah, bad bunny, he's incredible. No, I Yeah. I love both of those options. That was one point where I was doing, like, on Spotify, I was I was searching for nervous system regulation playlists, and I was like, Wait, if I may, play them in the background while I'm working a little thank you so much for taking the time. This conversation has been illuminating, and I know it's gonna help so many people once published. So really, thank you. So grateful. Yeah, for you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, if anyone has any questions, or if I can support you, just send me a note. I'm here. Thank you. Bye.