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So welcome everybody to the latest episode of Clover. This week we have Taryn Reeves on the show. Taryn, thank you so, so much for being on the show. You have a bit, you've three kiddos, but your youngest is three months old. So, my gosh, thank you for taking the time to talk to us. No, my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. I love doing these. It's so incredible. We were laughing before we started recording, and you know, when I first invited Taryn on the show, she was like, "So, about to have a baby if we could do this in a couple of months, and I'm like, oh my gosh, of course. So, total powerhouse, even the fact that you're here, the three month old, and two other kids as well. So, Taryn, I always like to kick off the show with sort of like the journey, if you will, the origin story of how you got to be where you are today, and I always love it when people weave in the personal with the professional, because I feel like that's reality, and that's who we are, like things that you were going through while you were kind of like figuring out your, your career, your professional life. So, so, yeah, if you wouldn't mind kind of sharing your, your background, that would be great. It's, it's a journey, and I'm pretty sure I am incapable of just, you know, leaving the professional and the personal, I kind of, I have to do the two, because I'm so sick of seeing, you know, these fake stories and profiles that, you know, are everywhere. It's just completely unrealistic. Like, guys, my life is a mess. Okay, there are toys all over my floor, there are stuff stacked up on my office floor, but the journey to get where I am today, and where I will continue to go, evolves. So, I was actually born in Africa. I live in Australia now, but I lived in Africa, was born there for 15 years, and it's very much, you know, get the best grades in school kind of culture, go to university, get married, you know, have three kids by the house, etc. etc. retire, and then die. And I was very conditioned into that kind of narrative growing up. And I moved to Australia. I went to high school here. I went to university. I actually started out in a degree in radiation therapy, and I did two and a half years of that. I only had six more months to go before I graduated, and I did my placement at a children's hospital in Sydney. And for those of you listening who don't know what radiation therapy is, it's the targeted treatment of cancer using laser. Anyway, I got placed in the children's hospital, and it was the saddest experience I think I have ever had, and I knew I wanted to have kids of my own one day, and I just couldn't do it. I was like, I can't do this long term, so I am kind of completely threw in the towel, and went, I'm not doing this anymore, my heart can't take it, I'm too soft for this. And I decided to pursue a degree in criminology, so I did that. I did that full time via distance education, so I did it all online whilst working full time as a project management officer in the railway, doing 12 hour shifts, so I would do two days, two nights, and then have four days off, so it was, you know, and I was in my early 20s, I was kind of like running full pelt at this vision of success that I had been told I had to have, and I honestly believed it, like I, you know, believed it subconsciously, obviously not. But anyway, I ended up getting a six figure career in my early 20s. I bought my first home, I got engaged, I had a new car, I was wearing suits to work, I had the corner office overlooking the harbor, and I was like, I'm really nailing this, like, I am so successful. I was so unhappy, but I didn't know it, you know? Or maybe I wasn't brave enough to confront it at that stage. I don't know, but I was like, yeah, I'm really doing this, you know, thing called life really well. I started to drop a whole heap of weight, and I'm not big anyway. I'm 52 kilos now, you know, postpartum pregnancy, this is my normal weight, but I dropped, you know, 20 kilos off that, like I was sick, and that wasn't intentional, this was my body just screaming for help. I ended up getting shingles, I ended up having a bit of a, I suppose, a mental breakdown, I guess you would call it, I just wasn't coping, and my doctor said, Taryn, you have PTSD, chronic depression, and major anxiety, and I just kind of looked at her, and I went, there is no such thing, because I've been conditioned that this wasn't a thing, right, we're told it's not okay, and so I was like, that's not a thing, anyway, she argued with me for about an hour, with me screaming hysterically in her office, and she, the way she explained it to me, was she's like, there's nothing wrong with you, like you're not broken. What this is like, she's like, I need you to go on some medication, but what it is like, it's like the medication is like a tow truck, and you're the truck stuck in the mud, and all the medication is going to do is going to come and hook up to your truck, and it's going to gently pull you up. The hill, and when you're at the top, you don't need the truck anymore, and I was like, "huh, okay, that makes sense to me, right? So I went on the medication, and I quit my high flying job overnight, no plan B. And then I went into a not-for-profit, working with people for brain injuries, and I did kind of like some respite work there. I did all of their rostering, project management kind of thing, very good at organizing people naturally. Maybe I'm a bit bossy, I don't know. And then I, you know, I was working there and I got made redundant a week before I was due to go on holiday to the UK, and I was like, okay, fine, whatever, no big deal, I will get a job when I get back. Well, whilst I was in the UK, I found out I was pregnant with my first child. So then I was like, okay, well, I'll still try and, you know, try to get a job, and you know, being a woman pregnant, trying to get a job, you know, people aren't legally allowed to say no, we're not going to hire you, but you know, from a business perspective, nobody, nobody hires pregnant woman, they just don't, and me being me, wanting to be completely transparent and honest, of course, I told them, I was like, you know, I am early pregnancy, so I couldn't get a job, there was always a better candidate, you know, that's fine, I was like, all right, well, I'll just write out this pregnancy, I'll get a job when my daughter's born, and when my daughter was born, I just, you know, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't go back to corporate. I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, and so I was like, there must be a different way to do life. Like, why, why do I believe that this is the only path to success, is to get, you know, a nine to five, send your kids to daycare, only see them whilst you're screaming for them to get ready and rushing out the door, and everyone's stressed in the morning, and then you know, getting stuck in peak hour traffic on the way home, having half an hour bundling into bed, and then going, what the hell just happened at the end of every day. So I really kind of wanted to restructure that narrative for myself and for other women. I was like, well, what's possible, and I don't come from a family of entrepreneurs, I don't come from that being modeled to me, and so it's been a journey, and I kind of fell into virtual assistants, I started out as a VA because I saw a post on a Facebook group saying, you know, this would suit a stay-at-home moms, just a couple of hours of admin a week, and it was for the essential oils brand doTERRA, so an MLM, which I now absolutely do not love the MLM model, but that's how I started out as doing admin for someone who was in an MLM, so I grew it from there. I quickly became booked out as a VA, kind of just figuring things out along the way, and I thought, well, now I can't scale this because I'm just one person, so I'm capping my income and capping my hours. I've essentially just got myself another job, and so I was like, How do I scale this? So I scaled that up to a virtual assistants and website development agency, because by that stage I had taught myself to code websites, I had taught myself how to use Canva, I taught myself, you know, marketing, all of these sorts of things. So then I had the agency, and then me, with my little ADHD brain, kind of was like, oh, now I'm a bit bored, now this is all doing really well. What can I add in to make my life more chaotic? And I decided to do business coaching, so I coached other mums how to start, you know, their virtual assistants businesses, and just streamline their systems in their already scaled businesses, because that's what I was, you know, good at, and that's what I knew. But then I'll get really annoyed, because people would show up to the calls, not all of them, but you know, many would turn up and go, "I'm still not making money, and I'd be like,"Well, did you action what we spoke about last week? They'd be like, "Oh no, and I'm like, "I just.. I can't, like I just can't frustrating, yeah. Oh, I'm just gonna make this crystal grid, and I'm gonna manifest$100,000 and I'm like, okay, and we have to do, you know, x, y, and z. Actually, like, I'm super woo woo, you know, in parts of my life, and I do love all of that energetic stuff, but there's also a very practical style, you've got to take action, like businesses don't build themselves, and I'm going to be completely honest, it is not fun. Some days you are like, what the hell am I doing, and if you're not questioning that on an almost daily basis, you're doing something wrong, pretty much. Yeah, yeah, and it can be very isolating too, right? 100% and I always say, only crazy people are entrepreneurs. It's like getting punched in the face again and again and again, and you just keep showing up and going more, please. More bit crazy, right? But there's something in you that just keeps driving you, right? And you know you have this vision, this lifestyle that you want to build anyway, so I shut down business coaching. I was like, not for me, and I just.. I became very disillusioned with the industry. Every other person was a coach, saying that they could do x, y, and z when they'd never done it themselves, and I just, you know, charging $30,000 I just couldn't do it. So I shut that down. On, and then the one of my friends actually opened a publishing company, and she was like, "Hey, do you want to write a chapter in a multi-author book project? And I was like, "Huh, interesting. And by this stage, all of my trauma from childhood, you know, experiencing political violence in Africa, you know, all that PTSD stuff, I thought I'd healed it, right, because I, I was off the medication, I had done the therapy, and I was like, yeah, I'm like a really healed, functional human being. I was like, I can write a chapter in the, in the book, it was called Wild Woman Rising, about my experience, you know, growing up in Africa, and what happened. Well, I got, I think, two pages into that chapter, and I was curled in the fetal position, absolutely sobbing on the floor of my office, and I was like, "Oh, interesting. And once I kind of finished crying, I felt like this huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders, and I felt like I could breathe a lot easier, and I was like,"Oh my god, what just happened? Like, what? What is.. what is this process? Because every.. you hear everyone, I'm like,"Oh, do journaling, do this, and I hate journaling. Like, I'm an author, and I hate journaling. I'm like, "I don't.. I want to sit there, write about my feelings, got better things to do, you know? But something happened in that book writing process, and I was like, "This is literal magic, like what is happening, and so I kind of went down this rabbit hole of, you know, what is this writing process, and I still couldn't do the journaling. I was like, yeah, now that journaling is not for me, but writing in a really deep, intimate, long form process for me was absolutely amazing, and I was like, well, it moved me to feel this much, and it healed me this much, and then it allowed me to expand into my next evolution of the business. I suppose my confidence increased, my clarity increased, my vision was so much clearer, and so I went, okay, I know how to do business, and I can do business really well now. How do we combine the two? And then I happened to come across an ad of someone saying, 'Hey, I can teach you how to open your own publishing company, and I'm pretty sure I was born reading in the womb. Erin, like, I love books. Like, books to me are just life. Like, I was the kid at the party, the nerd at the party, sitting, reading a book in the corner, while everyone else was, you know, blowing up condom balloons and things, whatever they did, and so I was like, wait, this is a thing, like I don't have to be a hay house or a penguin random house, like I can do my home publishing company, like no, this isn't real, so I invested the scariest amount of money at that stage that I'd ever invested to learn how to do that, and then what happened was, is that I realized that the systems and things like that, that were being taught inside there, just weren't big enough, like people weren't able to find, you know, the cover designers and the typesetters, and, you know, how do you actually book coach, and how do you do outreach, and how do you follow up leads, and how do you do sales calls, all those sorts of things. So I already had the VA team still running, and so I kind of integrated that into my publishing business, because I had the two running side by side, and then people from the publishing company, like who were also in the course, were then subcontracting to me to do all of the work, and I was like, okay, interesting. So I scaled up the publishing company to work with entrepreneurs across the globe to really tell their story in the way that I'm sharing it with you now, and then to teach their process and become known for what it is they're really brilliant at, because nobody is going to, you know, buy from you from another social media post, like it needs to be deeper. Now we need to know who you are, and I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen that people don't just buy off a social media post or an email campaign. All of these things serve a purpose, but they're part of a bigger ecosystem. So to me it was like, How do I really reach people and touch people and make them feel something, and how do I get all of these brilliant entrepreneurs to be authentic, and there's such a, you know, throw-around word at the moment, authenticity, and but no one is anyone actually not anyone, you know, many people aren't actually being authentic, but they were like, "Oh, this is authenticity. I'm like, yeah, but you've, you know, you, your makeup is perfect, and you're saying your life is perfect. I'm like, it's not like I don't trust you, sorry. So then you know it was about how do we get these people to share their brilliance and their, you know, five step formula, or how you move from a to b, or how you solve their problem, and really accelerate that trust factor that it takes people to buy from you, because nobody wants to do any more. Nobody wants to sit through a one hour, two hour webinar, and then receive, you know, the seven step nurture sequence, and like I just delete those emails, and when I'm on a webinar, like, as much as I want to be there, I've got a kid climbing on my head, or I. I've got 700 other tabs open because I want to maximize my time, so I'm busy typing up an email here, and I'm kind of half listening, so the conversion rate just isn't going to be there. But if I've got a book, if I've got a book sitting here, it's a physical, you know, copy, I see it on my bedside table, so subconsciously I'm all that person or that business is always in the back of my mind, and it's something that I go, yeah, that, that you know, and then we build in putting calls to action and QR codes in there to take them through to the next step to nurture the relationship, so it doesn't just become a book that sits on your shelf and gathers dust and go, oh, that was an amazing book, and then nobody ever does anything with it, it's about being really intentional and strategic with the process, so yeah, that's kind of how, where I got to today, I guess. It was a journey, like a really, you know, crazy child's drawing of all over the place. I wish it was a simple straight line from A to B, but it never is, and I know it never will be. Yeah, so on top of that I also have the podcast, because I love talking to people, I love learning about people, and it's just that also, you know, that aspect of storytelling, like how do we connect as real human beings in a world that is so disconnected, like where is the village, it's not there anymore, but we need, and I'm a massive introvert. I'm like, I don't like my social battery, like, yeah, come hang out with you for an hour, and then I don't want to talk to anyone for the rest of the day, like, that's, you know, and that's, you know, with my close friends and family. I'm like, yeah, cool, let's do dinner, and then, like, no, no more thanks. I'm gonna go home and spend, you know, at home for another three days. Yeah, exactly. There is this, yeah, I don't know if you're familiar with The New Yorker. They have this great publication, and they have these really witty cartoons that they do, and there's a New Yorker cartoon where, and they're usually like black and white, very just simply drawn, and there's a couple arriving at a dinner party, and they have like a bottle of wine for the host and everything, and then I think the husband looks at his partner, and he's like, I'm ready to go whenever you are, like they haven't even, like, arrived dinner party to take off, but I still think that feeling of village and that feeling of connectedness is important. Yes, I agree. And so we were talking, you know, before we were recording, how my previous podcast was about, you know, more of the business side, and now Clover really is more story in that. So I agree with you there. It's just that we need that connection, I think, now more than ever, you know. So you and you and I are very similar there. What I love about your story is like, yeah, and it's never a straight line for anybody, really. It's that would be so rare, and it's almost like that, that meme of like a glacier, and then you just see what's at the top, and you don't see like what's under the water, you know, like it's actually happening. And so it's, it's that's so interesting to me, because we all go through it as you're going through your journey, it's like, oh my god, yes, of course, it's like it takes you this way and that way, and ways you never thought you would go, and but what I love is that you just kept putting one foot in front of the other, you know, so you like, you said that publishing house, I would never, you know, and then somehow that opportunity came across your desk, and you're like, yes, that is something wrong. I was absolutely terrified, but this is the

thing: 18:25

it is all life is, whether it's business or personal, it is literally put one foot in front of the other and be brave enough to take the opportunities that feel right to you, and you'll know if something doesn't feel right to you, like you just do, and it's, and it's being self-aware enough to realize those things, and sometimes you'll do things that aren't aligned, and that there is just the journey, and it's not a failure, it's a lesson, and you're okay, cool, now I've learned that I don't like x, or I don't want to invest in these things, or I don't enjoy these things, and that's okay, like, you haven't failed. I mean, I've lost $50,000 on, you know, business coaching that I got halfway through. Like, the business coach ghosted me, like, and I was like, "Oh my god, that's a massive failure, you know. But looking at it, it's like, okay, like I don't want to do this anymore. This is not the way I want to do business. Like, I really want this human connection, and you know, realizing how much fake stuff is out there online, and how many coaches are, you know, fronting with these amazing formulas and promising the world, and I'm like, you know, if I can't do something, I'm going to tell you straight up I can't do it, but I will find you someone who can, right? Exactly, yeah, and the fact that you can identify it and kind of cut ties and move on to the next thing, you know, instead of just being like, "I guess I just.. I just thought I was going to do this, and so I'm going to, you know, keep it going. Even then, when you identify yourself, it's not true to me, you know, and it's not something that I should be continuing with, you know. So that's incredible, you can do that. And when you're speaking about working with these entrepreneurs. As authors, how, how do you get, because so many people are so humble, and especially women, I have seen, and I'm guilty of it as well. Like, I'll be somebody will ask me, you know, we'll be out somewhere, like I don't know, dinner party or wherever, and like somebody will ask, like, oh, what do you do, what you know, whatever, and then I'll answer them, and my husband always kind of like nudges me, he's like, "Oh my gosh, you undersell yourself like, yeah, we all.. we do it is such an interesting thing, Erin, and it's something we all struggle with, and I don't care how successful people, you know, look on the outside, I can tell you they're still struggling with this. My daughter, she's nine, and like we're chatting before, like I've been on a New York Times Square billboard, like I've won awards, like I've published, I think, nine books now, something, I don't know. So my daughter tells her friends, and she says to me, she's like,"Mommy, you're famous, like I've been in TV ads, because I also do user-generated content, so I do a lot of marketing strategy for brands, and you know, I'm in a lot of ads and things like that, because I'm stupidly good at talking to camera for some reason, but put me on a stage, I will probably wet myself, but I still do keynote speaking, so go figure, maybe I just like the like the adrenaline dump, but she goes, "Oh, Mom, you're famous, and I just look at her and I go, "I'm not famous, like that is the most ridiculous, laughable thing I've ever heard in my life. And then she, and then my fiance's like, but you know, first nine pages of Google are dedicated to all of you. If you Google, and I'm like, yeah, but that doesn't mean anything. I'm just a girl from, you know, Zimbabwe, like, you know, I do stupid things. I run around the house and act like a dinosaur chasing my two year old, you know, I will flash my husband from the top deck, like I'm, you know, a goofy, silly person. So, when people say things like that, we do tend to undersell ourselves, because we don't see ourselves as that, and I think a lot of women, we really hesitate publicly because we're a condition to associate visibility with risk, and it feels really uncomfortable. So, if you look back on it historically, it's be a bit nerdy now. Historically, when women have spoken out, and still today, I don't care how you know people like, oh, we've come so far, I'm like, I actually not really, you know, it comes with judgment, it comes with criticism, projection, or sometimes, you know, even punishment. If we want to go to the extreme, so you end up with these incredibly intelligent women who are very confident privately, but the moment there's a camera or a microphone or an audience involved, they just hesitate, they shut down, they go, I can't do that. And I also think it comes down to us wanting to overqualify ourselves before speaking out, right? So men will often share an opinion while they're still figuring it out, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just the way that their brains are wired, but women, we tend to think, oh, I need another certification, I need another year of experience, I need another level of certainty before I can do that, but I can tell you that authority does not come from perfection, it comes from clarity, and it comes from conviction, right. So, and the irony is, is that the people we often need to hear from the most are the ones that are second guessing themselves in silence. It's just this bizarre kind of like circle. Yeah, it's like the people that we are like, wow, you know, she is incredible, like she's doing all these things and really putting herself out there, and look how strong, look how smart, and you know, and then that, like, to your point, those, the people who are just like, I'm not doing this right, and what if people are like laughing at me, or questioning me, or they see through me, and you know, and everything, and it's like those are the people you know that we're like, oh, they're so confident, they're so incredible, you know, and other ones, you know, questioning themselves, and I always, I was laughing with a friend because she's a teenage daughter, and she was like, whenever you always say, like, "go outside, like, when we were younger, we had to go outside and play, or whatever, and so she's like, now with these teenage girls, they go outside, but they're always like taking selfies or recording everything and making everything like content, you know, and so she's like, so it's still kind of like not, they're really not still connecting because they're on their phones or whatever, and so like, you know, you and I were talking about storytelling and you know making that connection, but sometimes it can be seen as really performative online, and so like, how, how do you, you know, you talk about the authors and the women that you work with, and entrepreneurs, like, how do you help them share themselves in a way that doesn't come across that way? And it's like, we talked about trust and authority, right? How do you come across that way, and it's not like, you know, turning your life into content, of like, wow, I'm doing this, you know, kind of thing. Okay, yeah, so this was actually been really interesting for me, because, like, we were laughing about before we hit record, is that I have a problem. I will start new businesses left, right, and center one of my business arms under the whole umbrella brand is my personal brand, and I do a lot of user-generated content, which does require me to, you know, share my life and my family and things like that online for marketing purposes. So you might see my near my face pop up in your feed marketing you something. Now I will not market something like I will not work with the brand that I'm not aligned with, but my life sometimes does get turned into content, but from a business perspective as well, like the publishing, and you know, whether it's business coaching, I don't care what it is, there's a very fine line, right, and I think that we've also really confused vulnerability and authenticity with access, so I want you to hear that you do not owe the internet unrestricted access in your to your life in order to build trust. It doesn't have to be that way. Authentic storytelling isn't about, you know, bleeding publicly in real time. I cringe when I see these videos of people, you know, photographing themselves crying, or, you know, I'm like, What are you doing? Like, how is, like, why is our traumatized brain suddenly going, oh, you're experiencing this really uncomfortable private moment. Let's film myself, you know. I'm like, like, I cry on camera sometimes, but I mean, that's, you know, in the moment, like it's not me, like having a really private moment, because I don't know, a family member died or something, and you know, then filming that, like, I'm a very emotional person, I quiet songs, I quiet books. I knew I was pregnant with my third baby because I took the kids to the movie and I cried at an insurance ad, like I was like, okay, this is next level, even for you. But what it is, it's about sharing with intention, and there is a huge difference, right? So I always tell people that your life is not your content strategy. That's not a content strategy, right? You can be deeply honest without oversharing. So you can tell stories without doing that performative, you know, pain for engagement kind of scenario, because I can tell you that the best storytelling, the best storytellers, they are able to create, like, resonate with their audience, they're able to create resonance, not voyeurism. Yeah, right. And absolutely, and some of the most powerful people online, or even in the acting world, for example, you know, very public, they're very private people, and what they are good at is they simply know how to articulate emotion, insight, and truth in a way that makes people feel seen and understood. That is the line. And I also think, you know, if you've got something to say in the moment, you do not have to have perfect hair, you do not have to have perfect makeup, like the amount of times that I show up to a podcast or a business meeting with no makeup, or you know, nursing my baby, like breastfeeding my baby, or you know, one of the kids comes screaming in and jumps on my head, and like, I won't apologize for it, like, there is obviously a line of professionalism. Absolutely, I 100% believe in professionalism and leadership, and all of that, but there is a line, like real life happens, and nobody wants to buy from a robot version of you. So, if you've got something to say, and you're at the grocery store, and you suddenly feel the need to, like, communicate this thing that's really important to your audience, that's going to make them feel seen, moved, and understood. Don't go home and, like, shove it into Chappy TGPT. Get your hair done, like, think the hell out of it. Because by the time you get to transmit that message, it's going to be so watered down, it's not going to land. So, whip out that phone, you know, have the shaky footage if need be, and you know, just tell the people what, what it is that you're feeling or needing to tell them, it's, it doesn't have to be perfect, because I can tell you, it never will be, there is no such thing as perfect, and this is coming from someone who loves perfect, like I go to therapy for my perfectionism, no joke, yeah, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, and it's like to your point, like things start to get so calculated, if like, oh, then I should say this, and now I should say this, and I should say it that way, and so, like, when you're working with people, how do you kind of coach them on building that personal brand? Because it is important to build that personal brand, but I think the big keyword there is personal, so it's still you, right? And so it's like, how do you kind of help people coach them through that, you know, because especially if they're going to be an author, that's what it's expected, you know? I think in this, at this point, right, it is, it is, and I think most of it comes down to fear and your ability. You to overcome that fear, right, and I can share personally. I'll use myself as an example, right. So, when I first started out, you know, talking, it had to be perfect. I had to use a teleprompter, and I had to talk, you know, the exact script like this, like there's no ways I could talk to you like I'm talking to you now, because I'd be scared that I would drop a swear word, like I swear all the time, and that I would set my upset my parents, because I'm supposed to be this, you know, amazing young lady who went to department school, and etc, etc. Well, the first time I dropped a swear word online, I got a phone call from my dad, and he's like,"Oh my god, what are you doing? You need to take this down immediately, and I said, "No, you know. And then once I'd moved through that fear, I realized nobody had died, because on a baseline level, that's all your body is trying to do, like your body literally thinks that it is going to die, you are going to die if whatever scenario you've made up in your head happens. Now, that sounds completely ridiculous from a logical perspective, right? But your body is not logical, your brain is actually not logical when it goes offline like that into that fear, you, this, it really literally thinks it's going to die. So, it's like, okay, well, let's put, like you said, one foot in front of the other, and when I'm writing a book, I always say to my authors, one word in front of the other is how we get to a finished manuscript, like that. That's the only way it's going to get done, one word in front of the other, one foot in front of the other, and it's the same with life. So you need to be able to just be courageous enough to move through that fear, and once you move through that fear, and you realize you didn't die, or the worst scenario did or did not happen, even if sorry, you can probably hear my chickens talking about real life. Chicken is deciding to lay an egg. Yes, and my duck is staring me through the window. So, there you go. There's that for real life. Some chickens love it, but it's about being able to move through that fear, and once you realize that you didn't die, or that the worst case scenario didn't happen, or even if the worst-case scenario did happen, like you get a troll online, for example, and that was your biggest fear, but it didn't shut down your whole business, and you didn't have to go into hiding and go completely off grid and grow some dreadlocks and wear a loin cloth for the rest of your life, you know, you can go, ah, okay, it wasn't that bad, and so you gain that next level of confidence, and so it's really just giving the people that I work with the toolkit, and like often the pep talks, or the support, or the accountability to go, I see the real you, let's let's gradually work through that fear, and and how do we communicate that in your authentic voice, because when people show up, they have seen so much online, they've gone through so many courses, they've read so many personal development books that they really actually don't even know who they are. Yeah, they don't know who they are, and so sometimes it's a little bit of an uncovering of that, and this is all starting to sound very woo woo, but it's not like we're going to sit and meditate, and all that sort of stuff, which you know I'm all down for that, but that's not how I work. Like, I'm, I can be quite brutal. Yeah, I feel like you kind of have to be, you know, you're dealing with writers. It's like I'm a writer, and we need to hear it, you know. I'm like, I love you, but we're not doing that today. The people that I work with, like, I'm a very human human, like if you're in my circle, if you choose me to work with, like, that is the highest honor to me. And you become family, like you do, like I will love you, like I love one of my family members, and I will support you, like I love you, know, support one of them, and I will go to bat for you at every stage, and if that is against yourself, then so be it. And I think that kind of leads me to my next question. Of, so when you were saying earlier, like, you tried journaling, it's not for you, I have as well, and I keep trying to make it happen. I'm like, I'm a writer, I should be able to do this, you know, but then when you started writing more long form and everything, you're like, wait, something clicked, and this, like, you were saying, like, magic is happening. How I can imagine when you're working with your authors of like seeing that play out in real time, like, tell us about that, like, when you see them, they're going through these, you know, writing, they're just like, whoa, you know, and they confront these emotions and these things, like, how is that? Oh, I just get so proud, Aaron, like, it's like, oh, it's the most beautiful space to be in with people, because they don't believe that they can write a book, or they don't believe they have something important enough to say, and these people, you know, can often be turning over millions of dollars, and they're still sitting there thinking, nobody wants to hear from me, I'm not good enough. What if I upset my mum, my grandma, my husband, my best friend, you know, all of those sorts of things. What if someone hates what I have to say, and they send me an angry email, and when they move. Move through this space. It is a journey of being forced to meet yourself, I think, and there are very few things in life that force you to meet yourself, because when you are not working in a container with somebody and you're doing it on your own, there's nothing to stop you from bouncing out of that space and going to distract yourself with I don't know shopping or a new business idea or you know a bottle of wine or whatever it is because you're feeling uncomfortable so when you are forced to meet yourself in that long form writing process it's something that people don't expect but it is the absolute best part. Yes, we are going to build you an amazing, best-selling authority-building book that is going to scale your business and make you become the, you know, the known expert in your industry, and give you an evergreen marketing asset for the rest of your business life, if not beyond. Right? Yes, we are going to do that. That's not the magic. The magic is that meeting of yourself, because writing a book is not about organizing information, which is most people think I'm just going to, you know, put down my five step process, and that'll be it. What it is about when you write a book is about confronting your voice, your beliefs, your insecurities, your contradictions, your experiences, and what you're truly willing to stand behind publicly, because a book is a permanent in a way that social media isn't right. You can delete a social media post, it's you can't emotionally delete a published book. You can absolutely delete a published book. I can go on to Amazon and delete any of my books if I want to, but you cannot emotionally delete that book, so there's often a moment where people experience this fear, this grief, this liberation. They meet their imposter syndrome head on, and then they meet pride and expansion, and sometimes all of this is happening at once, like it's not for the faint-hearted, I'm not going to lie, but it is the most effective way to move through to that next level of who you are, and on the other side of that process, people become clearer not only in who they are but in their business, their business model, like I have had entrepreneurs with the most successful businesses already write a book, and they've come back to me, and I've said, Taryn, I am so much more clearer on my process now, on how I want to deliver this to people, on how I want to run my retreats, or speaking events, or whatever it is, through this process, so they become more grounded, right, more certain in who they are and what they stand for, and what I kind of say there is, and I always say this is that books don't create authority, they reveal it, they reveal who you are and what you are really good at, and how to transmit that to other people, so that you can change more lives. Yeah, I can't, I can't help but think, so you study criminology, which is fascinating to me. First of all, so as you're speaking, like, I can't help but think that, like, that plays into how you approach what you do today, right? Because really, storytelling, writing, working with entrepreneurs, getting people's stories out. It's about human behavior at the end of the day. And so, do you, do you see that? Like, do you kind of think, like, okay, some of your background kind of feeds this into it, and maybe it's changed the way that you've kind of like observed people or understand their motivations and kind of get them from point a to point b at all, yeah. So this is interesting, right? So people like, oh my god, you're so good at writing books, and you're so good at coaching people, and you're so good at figuring out how to get it published and on the best seller list, and all that sort of stuff. And I'm sitting there going, I feel guilty for charging people for something that I find so easy to do, right. And this is where it becomes interesting, because I know that I'm not the only one. Once you find that part in your business where you're like, this is so easy to me, but other people are like, mind blown, right? That is your zone of genius, like to use, like, a really boring marketing term, but you know that is your sweet spot. And this is what I found interesting. So, growing up, like I said, I was really conditioned to, you know, go after certain acceptable degrees. So, you know, study radiation therapy, because I wanted to help people, and you know, work in a hospital. You know, make my parents proud. That sounds like a really good career. I never wanted to work in a hospital. I don't even like fluorescent lights, like I like the smell of formaldehyde, like I don't want no, and so the criminal, like, when I decided to completely pivot, not going to say that people were happy, but I've always been interested in humans, human behavior, like people fascinate me, and they often disappoint me, and I find myself going, what the actual hell on a day. Yearly basis, because the human mind and human behavior and human relationships are so complicated and so intricate that I will never stop being kind of wowed by it, I don't think, and then when you combine that from an entrepreneurial perspective in how to do sales school, sales calls, marketing psychology, the power to move people, not in a manipulative way, because I know there are loads of ways to do that, to be really manipulative, to move people to do what you want them to do. I mean, whatever, if you want to do that, go ahead and put it. Just, I couldn't sleep at night, yeah, to reach their own interesting, because that's really what it comes down to, is being able to connect with another human being, but not from your experience, from their experience, because you and I, Aaron, could experience the exact same situation, but when we speak about it, after your story will be completely different to mine, right, and that just to me is like, you know, so criminology, because we studied that as well, you know, like why, when two people experience a home invasion, for example, and then they're sitting in the police station recounting their statement and their two different stories, you know, it's not because they're lying, it's literally because their brains have interpreted the experience based on that person's past experiences, present situation, and future expectations. So, your entire existence is a story that you are telling yourself based on those kind of three things, which just to me is like, whoa, and the power behind that is that we can choose to change the story whenever we want, isn't that cool? So it's just, I don't buy that, but yeah, criminology itself, as the degree, it taught me that human behavior is, is almost never random. Okay, human behavior is not random, there's usually a deeper motivation underneath what people do, to you know, what they do, what they say, avoid what they fear, what they pursue, what they go after, and I guess that made me even more curious about people, you know, why do people lie, why do people hide themselves, why do people seek power, why do people self sabotage, why does trauma shape our behavior, and why do some people need certainty while there's others who chase the chaos, right? Why? Why? And storytelling there is really about understanding that human motivation. So the reason that great stories resonate, I guess, is because they reflect the emotional truths that people already recognize in themselves. And your story, Erin, is not going to be for everybody, and that is awesome. You know, I think we're taught, you know, marketing, you, you need to be for everybody, like we need to sell to every, and you cannot, you cannot sell to everybody, you want people to what I call self lead, right? Because you don't want to get on a sales call with somebody who do find out that you know they hate the sound of your voice, or you know they don't like how you wear your hair, or you know you've got different books on your shelf that are into ones that I would read. All of this is going on subconsciously. I am automatically going, is this my person? Is this person part of my tribe? Is this, you know, who someone I trust and feel safe with? These decisions are being made split seconds, you know, all the time. And when you do show up authentically, like proper authentically, you know, people are able to go, I hate her, I love her, you know, I'm undecided. Let's do more research, and you want that, you know, I want some people to hate me. Good, like I don't hate you back, but you know, you don't have to hang out with me. I'm not asking you to, and that's where the power your marketing will really start to convert, or your book will really start to sell and bring in those aligned clients. Yeah, it's when you do show up, you're saving yourself time. I also think that I guess my background has made me highly observant, right? Yeah, even through the PTSD, like one of the things is like highly observant, right? And I notice patterns in communication, emotional responses, inconsistencies, body language and behavior, and I'm able to do it really, really quickly, you know, and if you really kind of take away all the layers, all of us have that ability, and but that has been incredibly valuable for me in, you know, media publishing, leadership, and branding, because at the core of all of those things is psychology. I do not have a degree in psychology. I have lived experience. Yes, I did a lot of psychology in criminology, but I'm not a psychologist, like I'm not a body language expert. I'm not, you know, any of those things. This is lived experience. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's so valuable. People, but it's undervalued, right? And so it's like, from all of us, like to your point, like we all come from different backgrounds, we have different perspectives, different way we see things, you know? Like, my husband will see the, like, I'll meet, so I'm like, oh, they're so great, and he's like, no, two weeks later, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, now I see, because he could see it, because he had some other experience that I haven't had, and you know, and so it's just beyond fast, the human brain beyond capacity. It's, you know, we are not tapping into nearly as much, and I get frustrated with that on a daily basis. I'm like, I can feel that there's something here, and I need to. How do I access this? I know, and it's like we know, like, this much about the human brain, right? It's like, I know. So, if people.. because this is just so fascinating to me, I love talking about this stuff. If people want to connect with you online, what's the best way for them to do so? I think the simplest way, because I have several different businesses and websites is to just come to Taryn reeves.com or Google Taryn Reeves, come hang out on the podcast, listen to the podcast, like send me a message on social media, I write back to all of those, I don't have my team do it, because you know I want to hang out with the real people sometimes, you know, I am a real person. I will have real conversations with you. So, if you are wanting to come and hang out, just Google Taryn Reeves or Taryn reeves.com Go to the social, send me an email, send me a DM. You know, there are free resources that link through to the publishing page. If you're wanting to publish a book and kind of go down that journey, yeah, that's come play. Okay, I love it. Yeah, and then we'll link to your to that and your website and everything, and then also to your podcast, so everybody can tune into that. I love it. Okay, so I ask one fun question of everybody, because I love music, and so if you could only listen to one music artist for the rest of your life, who would it be? I thought you were gonna say one song, and I was like, that one's easy for me. One music artist. Gosh, I don't know. Actually, you know what? It's not an artist. If I could listen to one thing for the rest of my life, I would listen to rain sounds. The sound, rain, yeah, yeah, it's beautiful, calming, different, because I sleep with rain sounds every night, and I'm not talking about like the calming pitter patter, I like full on thunderstorm kind of that's my jail force winds. I want the lightning flashing, but when my kids are melting down as well, like there's some fantastic things on like YouTube that you can put on, you know, like relaxing rain sounds, and it has the scene of like an actual river flowing, and I've just noticed that it's the fastest way in a world where we aren't able to connect with nature as much to come back to ourselves and to just go, you know what, that $50,000 that I lost to the business coach isn't that big a deal, my body can breathe again, or you know what, my kids are really like, I'm picturing throwing them off the balcony right now, but it's like, okay, maybe I don't want to do that, that's probably not a very good idea, I guess, that that's it, but wanted a song, I can give you a song, Fighter by Gym Class Heroes, for me always just helps me, I suppose, get back on the proverbial horse when I'm feeling like I've been, you know, punched by life and knocked out for a little bit. I'm like, no, like, get back up, you can do this, you can do this. I have that song on one of my playlists, so yeah, that's like, that's that's my, that's my song, like, yeah. And I'll sit there and I will ball, and I'll be like, and they're back. Okay, I can do this. Let's get back in the ring fighter. Damn it. Yeah, yeah, like I love.. I'm gonna keep building, you know. Yeah, it reminds me of, like, I love that, the quote, like the man in the arena, you know. And it's just like, if you're not in the arena, if you're not bloodied and marred and everything, then it's like you have no place, you know, to speak of anything, you know, unless you're in the arena. So kind of a simple.. what about you? What's your favorite artist? My mom's like, still like, I love the Beastie Boys. Oh, I love it. My mom's like, how old are you now? And yeah, I'm like, I don't know what to tell you, like I let up. Yeah, it's like there's my three favorites, probably Beastie Boys, Death Cap for Cutie and Fagazi, and they're all completely different from each other. I like cutie, yeah, they're like one of my faves, like one way they did the Spotify 25 years or whatever, I know since they launched, and like Death Cab has was my number one, you know, it's like, yeah, that makes sense, but I have had so much fun talking to you, I am so cognizant of your time, so thank you again for being on the show, I really appreciate it for having me, so fun.