Erin Geiger: 0:10

Welcome everybody to the latest episode of Clover. Today we have Natalie Poindexter joining us. So excited! We've been trying to get together for a while. So Natalie, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. Thanks for having me, Erin. I'm excited to that we were able to make it happen. Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation. And so, as I always start out with, I just want to kind of know your backstory. Like, how did you get to where you are today? You know, from point A to point B. You can start back as early as you want in your in your life, and I love it when people weave in kind of the personal with the professional. I just really feel like that. I don't know that gives a connection, which I think we need so much in this world right now. So, but yeah, I would love to kind of hear about your your journey.

Unknown: 0:53

Oh man, my my quick synopsis will be: so I'm I'm based in Austin, Texas, but born and raised Columbus, Ohio. So if you hear some Midwestern terms that sound like gobbledygook, just know it's a real word. But you have to be from the Midwest to get it. I said humbug to some folks here, and they just looked at me like, "Is that an app? And I was like, "Oh, what an awesome thing to say! But also no, just my Midwest coming out. I've been in Texas almost seven years now, and the way that I got here is is literally my life stopped working. I I was the one everybody knew in Columbus, and and I was just a baby socialite, right? And I had all of these things happening, and then it just fell apart. Everything that I had access to, the people, the opportunities, the favor, and I kept thinking it was me. Like, oh wow, what did I do? What did I break? And somehow everything in Columbus stopped working, but everything in Austin started working. So, for reference, December 2019, I drove a U-Haul truck across like the country, in my opinion, because it felt like the longest drive ever to Austin, sight unseen, to a house that I was moving into, with no family, no friends, no connections. Really, a little bit from grad school, a little bit from some nonprofit work I was volunteering for, and six months later, COVID hits, and it was almost as though the world shut down, but mine exploded in the best way. I went from being a corporate girly to filling a need with a consulting firm that I built to realizing none of that was what I was supposed to be doing because it didn't feel good. It wasn't fulfilling me. I felt exhausted and drained. I was sick, and I ended up dabbling in. I shouldn't say dabbling. I ended up finding plant medicine because traditional therapy, traditional processes, just weren't working for me. And I kept saying something has to change. Something has to be different. I just don't know what. And I needed to now. I needed to under. I needed to understand. Then I needed to remove my ego out of that scenario, so that I could hear what it was that I was supposed to be doing. And my world came plummeting down, crashing down, lost my job, lost, and I say lost now, but I will change that language in a moment. Friends, relationships, built a second business to try to fill that need. And what I will say to how I got to now is, one, telling my story, but also connecting to people who understood more than I did, so that they could help me change my language from lost to outgrowing, from what should I be doing to what feels feels purposeful, and so now, in this realm of operation, I know when we first started, I was like,"My world's on fire! My world's on fire again! Right

Erin Geiger: 4:32

here we are.

Unknown: 4:34

And so, you know, to say how I got to this exact moment, I can't tell you it was a linear experience because it wasn't. It was both professional and personal and spiritual, mental, physical, psychological, all of the things. And I'm still becoming the version of myself that's in front of you today. So it. It sounds like it's a very verbose explanation of how I got to this, but truly, honestly, I made the choice to pick myself, and that's how I've been able to transition and transform from a corporate girlie to an entrepreneur to full time in this space that I'm still learning.

Erin Geiger: 5:25

Yeah, and how did you come to that? Like, what were you doing before you moved to Austin, and then why Austin? Like, how did you choose, and how did you even make that move?

Unknown: 5:39

It's a funny thing. I used to be an EMT, so you're emergency medical technician. So I worked EMS for about eight years. I had a plan when I was young. I knew what I was going to do at 19. Life happened, and then I became an EMT at 25 and fell in love. Loved helping people. I loved that that part of my life, but I also realized that it was exhausting.

Erin Geiger: 6:09

Yeah,

Unknown: 6:10

and I had to do something different, which is what led me to finding public health. I was able to, as the fixer that I am, I was able to get to that root cause moment, and I really, really loved that. And started really focused on the public health side before public health was cool, and the pandemic hit, and we all finally realized what public health was. I was in that space and met some people from from Austin at a conference, and they were like,"Hey, like, would you build our health and wellness department? I was like, "Sure, I guess. I don't know. I mean, what does that mean, right? And the researcher in me, I dug in, I honed in. We did a lot of work during my grad program. I was doing my MPH at Baylor University, so sick and bears. I know, I know. Being in Austin, right? I knew I did. I live in Waco.

Erin Geiger: 7:11

My my my my kiddo goes to OU and University of Oklahoma, and so I'm like, well, they're going to kick us out at any time.

Unknown: 7:18

Anytime, anytime. Yeah, yeah. So I, so I was, I, I was in grad school at Baylor, and I realized, you know, I don't want to live in Waco, I also don't want to live in Dallas. So like, where are my other options? And I, Austin just happened to be the thing. A lot of it was, it just started working, even though I had no clue what was working,

Erin Geiger: 7:42

yeah,

Unknown: 7:43

yeah,

Erin Geiger: 7:44

got it. And tell me about what I feel like you're working on. I know you're working on a few things currently. So tell tell us about what you what you are working on and how those came to be.

Unknown: 7:59

Yeah. So I finally realized that I didn't have to operate in this box; that I could be a quote-unquote professional and a creative at the same time. I've been writing for a very long time quietly, and I am actually working on my first co-authored book that's coming out this August, super excited about that.

Erin Geiger: 8:24

Yeah,

Unknown: 8:25

I've also built a zine. The children told me that is the language for. I called it a magazine, a mini magazine, and they were like, "No, Natalie, it's a zine. I was like, "Zine. Okay, I don't know what that means, but I'm glad you do. The theme is is it's called the Becoming Collective, and it's about my journey of transformation. It's about what decision I made seven years ago to pack up my life, proverbially burn it all down, right? And and do this this journey. And I am also, I think this is news to you as well. I'm finally leaning into what people are asking me for, and not running away from it. People have come to me for coaching, support, mentorship, sponsorship, and not in the traditional way. In the, I know something has to shift. I don't know what per se, but I know I have to do life differently, and that is the exact opposite of what people know me for doing. A lot of people are like Natalie Does grants? Yeah, yeah, kind of. Like I do, but I just fell into those too because COVID, right? If you people wanted money during COVID, I wrote public health programs, public health funding. Here we are,

Erin Geiger: 9:56

right?

Unknown: 9:56

That I think speaks to who I am today. Which is the person who has shed the box that has been checked for me and is like now building this unique shape that I live within. Yeah, stepping into that realm is is uncomfortable but exciting.

Erin Geiger: 10:21

And were you kind of always this way? Like when I look back and I research, it's like a weird question. Were you always this way, Natalie? Because, because as you said, people come to you when things aren't working. You know, they need help or support in certain things, and it's like. But you have this thing where it's like you don't just accept that's the way things are, you know, and like let's figure that out. So some people I feel like are wired that way. Some life happens to them and they become that way. Like, oh no, I'm not just going to accept things and and everything. So it's like, you know, especially now I feel like this is such a good conversation to have because nothing traditional works anymore. You know, I just the world is crazy with AI and just all the things going on in the the world itself. Everything's just kind of like if you watch Stranger Things, I'm like we're in the upside down. Like so, it's like so. Have you kind of always been that way, or did life kind of put you in that direction of like kind of let's question the traditional way and let's figure things out in a unique way and move forward?

Unknown: 11:34

I was always this way.

Erin Geiger: 11:35

Okay,

Unknown: 11:38

but I was taught to soft quotes behave. There's a story that my my mother will tell, which is in kindergarten. I got a letter sent home stating that I told my kindergarten teacher there's this is this is entirely too early for children to be awake. We should not be needing to be at school this early. And if I need a nap, then I should be going home.

Erin Geiger: 12:10

Little five-year-old Natalie, I love this.

Unknown: 12:12

Yeah, he was like, I don't, I don't think this is how we're supposed to do stuff. And my my teacher was like, I love that she's so expressive, but like it's disturbing the children. And I was just like, well, bear with

Erin Geiger: 12:26

me on this, so

Unknown: 12:29

because none of us want to be up this early, and I will never forget that story. Do I have proof with the letter? No, but I remember Miss Molenpaw from World Harvest Christian Academy for all of those that know back in the day, right? That was my world, and but I was taught to not say those things, and now I'm I've shifted. I've kind of like shimmyed out of that. I sat. I sat quiet and behaved for so long.

Erin Geiger: 13:04

Yeah,

Unknown: 13:05

I don't want to anymore.

Erin Geiger: 13:07

Right.

Unknown: 13:09

That's

Erin Geiger: 13:10

yeah. Yeah, and that's where we see the most change and progress. Right. It's from you know when we kind of question that we're like, wait, what should you know? Yes, like there are certain things that like we're trained to do, and we should do, and you know. But it's like, what, what are we called to do, really? You know, is more of a, a question, and not just do things because this is a very tiny example. I kept my last name when I was married, and when I got married, and you know, because everyone just, if they did ask me about it, my family was supportive. They're like, "Do whatever you want. But you know, some people like, "Oh, but it's tradition, and I'm like, "To me, that's not. If that's the only reason you can give me to do something, it's tradition. It's the way it's always been done. Then I'm like,"It doesn't really hold a lot of water with me personally, you know. So, and who

Unknown: 14:03

said it has to still be done that way,

Erin Geiger: 14:05

right? You know, it's like can't we just all do, you know, what's what's right for for us? And so, um, and I was reading your background, and I was just like, oh my gosh, like she's built company companies plural, and um, you know, and you don't have a strong technical background. You don't have like all like all this like venture funding behind you. You've leveraged AI, which I think is genius. We're all kind of you know figuring that out, right? And so, but there's so many like this is a podcast where I talk to a lot of women, and there are so many women who assume they're they're not technical enough to build, right? And so, what what do you say to them? You know, and what did you say to yourself when you were starting to build, and you're like, "Well, I don't have X, Y, and Z. And what do you kind of say to women who are like, "Well, I don't have this. I want to build this. I mean, the whole biocoding thing is out there. So talk to. A little bit about that.

Unknown: 15:01

Yeah. Okay. So my guttural reaction is, if we are able to figure it out, right? And I'll use something remedial that we do so well. We carry 12 grocery bags into the house. We don't drop a thing with our keys, with ourselves, like with everything, and maybe a kid in tow. Like maybe there's there's another human that we're responsible for following us. Like what do we with our hands, right? And we're like, it's cool, we've got it. Yeah, I'm a woman. Hear me roar. That that is something we figure out every day. Yeah, and I take that same concept with vibe coding. I was always a fixer in my roles, even though that wasn't my title. And I had to talk people through a vision. That was usually the thing I had to. I had to coerce people into believing things that we could do or the connections, and that's where I was able to say, okay, what do I want my platform to look like? How do I want it to feel? What do I want it to do in every single thing that People touch, and that was how I decided to vibe code, right? Like being able to say, I'm not a developer. I've worked with developers. I I do have that background where I've had to be the traditional business analyst or the fixer of sorts that has to build this repository that I have no clue how to build, but I know what I need it to do. If you know what you need something to do, then you can vibe code. The colors and the styles and all of those things. You can use a template, but if you know exactly what you need something to do for you, or for someone else. If if you are a business owner and you're a solopreneur, and you're like, I need this repetitive thing that I do with clients all the time to be automated because it's wasting my time. It takes up too much time. I'm exhausted. Right, whatever it might be, that is what you vibe code because you know that system better than anybody, and it doesn't matter that there might be seven other people that are doing the same thing and they're going to be the next unicorn and competition like what competition, what competition because if this thing solves something for you, who are you competing with? There's that whole idea, and as I was building Scafina, people were like, "You need to be first to market. You need to be first to market. And I was like,"Dude, I'm building this because my clients are stressing me out. Right. It just so happens that I think other people could use this as Well, and I had an angel investor who said the same thing, right? And and she was like, "Just go build it, like go build it and make it available to other people. You don't have to vibe code the next billion dollar idea. You can vibe code the thing that makes you extra$10,000 a month simply because you can take on your clients. You can automate your process and your system because you're not ready to hire yet. So that's the way that I went in, and I used Lovable. It's also extremely affordable. I think when we see the cost of a developer, it's 3040, 50,000 just for like a small build. I think women see that number and we're like, "Ugh, I don't think I don't think that's for us, right? But if you see like 500, and and you have 1000 credits, and 1000 credits gets you an entire platform. We've now seen the results, and then once you've built, you can then go and say, "Hey, development person, I now am bringing in 40, 50k revenue per month. I can afford to pay you to do this thing. Makes make this better for me, and now I'm going to have somebody run it. So that's my mindset around technology, our imagination, our creativity as women. I think we live in such a tumultuous time right now. We've become more creative in how we function. That vibe coding is meant for

Erin Geiger: 19:49

us. Yeah, that's it. How did that feel? How did that feel to to just create something from nothing? You know, and with skills that you probably were like, I don't have. You know, and so, but then you're like, look at this thing that I did, and it's like, yes, you can hire someone else to get it to the next level, but like you, you had like an MVP, you know, and so it's like, how did how did that how did that feel to to be like, look at this tangible thing I did?

Unknown: 20:18

Beautiful,

Erin Geiger: 20:19

yeah.

Unknown: 20:20

I had been invited to TechStars apply. You know, did my application process. They invited me to a very specific one based in New York, and I didn't make it to the final round. And I was crushed because I was like, "Dude, I have a product with people using it. This is what you know, and so I had this like fumble moment where I fumbled myself, but realized that program was not for me. It is hypermasculine and focused. That is not the product that I want to create. And I'll say this part as well. It felt really, really good that when women saw the platform, like I think, like 85% of our users are women. So when women saw the platform, and they were like,"Not only does it feel good when I look at it, but I feel like I can use this easily. And that, for me, was the yes, because I didn't want women to feel that sterile masculine experience that most tech products have,

Erin Geiger: 21:28

yeah.

Unknown: 21:29

And I, because I don't want that to be a deterrent for them to go get grant funding,

Erin Geiger: 21:33

right?

Unknown: 21:33

Right. And then if all I'm saying is you you type in this information, you click this button, and then you get matched. Now your mind is opening up to you. Oh, I could just click. You know, so so it became this like flow of energy, specifically focused on how women feel about using a tech product and grants.

Erin Geiger: 21:54

Yeah, for sure. Which is, I don't know. It's such. I just love that because it's you know it's getting. Hopefully, it's helping to increase confidence of people, you know, doing things, accomplishing things that they would have thought they couldn't, you know, have done. So it's putting these tools in our hands that it can be used for good, you know. And so we mentioned, you know, kind of like grants earlier, and so then you've also helped organizations, you know, get funding, and so and along the way, like I just imagine the stories that you've heard, you know, throughout all of that, and it's all about giving evidence of why someone's work should exist, why this matters, you know, kind of a thing. So I'm wondering, so did you kind of spend you had spent so much time kind of telling other people's stories. So did that change the way you kind of talk about your own and how it kind of ties into your own ambition and your your own voice as you kind of worked on your own project rather than trying to help support others?

Unknown: 22:59

That has been my greatest challenge.

Erin Geiger: 23:02

Yeah,

Unknown: 23:03

honestly, I actually said to a friend of mine who is a grant writer with me. I'm like, I don't think I can write my own grants.

Erin Geiger: 23:11

Yeah,

Unknown: 23:12

I don't. I I have not been successful at that. And I'm like, I don't know what is it that I'm just not interesting. Like, what am I? But then I'll have a client that's like, "Ah, we just got an award, and I'm so excited. And I'm like, "What? Wait a minute! How does this happen? Right? And I've recognized that I I am my own biggest hater. Yeah, I will amplify and elevate all of the clients, all of the people who are like, I think I, I think I could go get money. I'm like, of course you can, and there's tight like this and this and this and this, and then boom, and then for myself, I'm like, oh, how would I spend that? I don't think I, you know, and and so that's been this barrier of success that I've placed on myself, that I'm learning to navigate, and I think that it's not necessarily around the grant funding that I am learning to talk about myself. It is around the concept and the construct of resilience. There's a phrase that I I use in my chapter that's coming out that I learned actually while building this product, which is build, ship, iterate.

Erin Geiger: 24:30

Yeah,

Unknown: 24:31

build a thing, ship it, and iterate it while it's in front of people, and that is the the construct that I'm giving myself now, so that I can talk about myself differently. I hope that answers.

Erin Geiger: 24:48

Yeah, no, it does. It does, and it it kind of goes into my other thoughts because you've built so many infrastructure. You know, like regardless of if it's like grant systems, technology communities that you're building, and in my work as well, I see that people are very attracted to the visible parts of leadership, but that comes from these kind of invisible systems that are underneath that kind of build the foundation to have that influence and that impact and that that leadership. So, why do you think? I mean, women in particular, we pay more attention to, but we should pay more attention. We don't, but we should pay more attention to the systems underneath. Because I feel like we're just we're chasing the outcomes that we want to see, but we need to kind of like peel that back and focus on the systems that will build us to get to the impact and the outcomes that we're chasing. And I feel like you've done that really, really well. So it's like, why do you kind of see women in particular? We're just focused on the outcome and not the steps really to to get there, and we might get discouraged or think we don't have it in us to take the steps to get there.

Unknown: 26:09

It's a beautiful question. It's also, I think, a challenging question because it goes to our conditioned mindset. Is how I look at that. The conditioning that we're taught as women is keep moving the goalpost. Right. You've oh you did that successful thing. That's fine. Great. Keep moving the goalpost. Go for more. Oh, you've gone as far as you can. Well, where else could you pop right? Then there's that limitation that's set, and I think that as women, right now especially, we're finally saying, "Hey, these systems that we've been operating in, they really don't work, at least not for us. And my, I'll I'll give this example, and I hope that this answers in a a story where where my my thoughts are with this. I was working at a healthcare technology company, and my mentor at the time, very successful MD, she's on the board of this multi-billion-dollar company that we're at, right? And I'm sitting there talking to her at this cute, beautiful resort, and I'm like, man, Dr. G, like I just I feel like an imposter on this team. I'm the only woman. I'm only woman of color. Like this, you know, I'm going through this, and she was like, stop. Now I am paraphrasing what she gave me because this is what resonated. But she said, "You know, you are not an imposter; you are a disrupter because the systems that you're in were never built for you in the first place,

Erin Geiger: 27:56

right?

Unknown: 27:57

And if you think of the term of imposter syndrome, it started in the '70s by women who were in the workplace saying, "I don't feel like I belong here, and we weren't. The systems were not created for women to even work, and we're still in those same systems working. So I think that's where we are now as this moment to say, we tried it your way, we tried it through your system, and now we are happy to one watch you burn it all down because that's what's happening right now. But we are taking notes because we're we're hyper intuitive and inquisitive as women. We're we don't want the half story. We want all the details. We don't want you to leave out. Well, what time did they call? I want to know. I want to know everything. I want to know everything. Men are like, they called. Yeah, they they just called. I'm like, no, I have 17 more questions. We are finally in this space now, where I think we feel confident as a collective to say, "I am a disrupter. It's it's appropriate for me to be a disruptor because without us, this world would fail,

Erin Geiger: 29:17

right?

Unknown: 29:18

And that's the confidence that I think we're awakening into right now as women, so that we can stop moving that goalpost, and then we can sit and celebrate. Like, girl, do you know I made it a whole workday and I did not roll my eyes at anybody on camera.

Erin Geiger: 29:36

Yeah, the

Unknown: 29:37

win because I was having a good day when I started, that's a win. Like a win is a win, right? So I just I feel like we maybe I don't know we need a group chat or something, right? Where it's just like I I didn't cuss somebody out. I didn't cuss at anybody today. I did not have road rage, right? I I did not write my resignation letter again, right? Like it's. I think we're finally at that space, but I think we collectively need to remind each other that we can stay in that space too.

Erin Geiger: 30:07

Yeah, exactly. And kind of tied to that, I feel like as women, we also tend to feel like we need to explain ourselves all the time, and you know, and it's like so. I love that you created the becoming collective. So for me, that kind of tells me like, oh, okay, you think a lot about reinvention, as do I, and I think that women also. I know that we feel a lot of pressure to explain every shift, every pivot that we make, and so that so that it makes sense to everybody else why that matters to us, I don't know. And so, at like, what point did you become comfortable? Because I feel like you are comfortable in letting your career look nonlinear. This is what it is, you know, and being okay with that instead of trying to make everything look perfectly planned. Because like, there's like that thing where it's like it's a glacier. Like you only see what's above the water. You don't see what's below, you know, kind of a thing. But it's like we always feel this pressure to explain everything away, make sure everyone else why you know it makes every sense to other people and stuff. And so, when were you just like, listen, it is what it is, and this is my career. It's nonlinear and it's not perfectly planned, but it's perfectly made. You know, how did you get to that to that point? And I'm hoping that will help others listening get to that point as well.

Unknown: 31:25

You know, so I left my my corporate job because I was convinced that my consulting firm was going to take off. This was almost four years ago, and I had the plan, right? The plan. 45 days after I quit my job, which, by the way, I my blood I was work like I said I was working at a healthcare technology company with physicians. My blood pressure was through the roof. My stress levels were unimaginable. I was having migraines. Like I was physically reacting to my job,

Erin Geiger: 32:01

yeah,

Unknown: 32:03

I put my. I was like, I'm just picking myself, right? And and the contract that I thought was coming through didn't work, so I went into survival mode. I got to get a job, and I went back to a job, and I didn't even make my 90 days. It was what I left times 50. The day I walked in, it was it was the most toxic workplace I'd ever been in, and I was afraid to leave.

Erin Geiger: 32:37

Yeah,

Unknown: 32:38

right. Because I'm like, well, if I leave again, I don't know what my business is gonna do, and if I don't know what my business is gonna do, how I'm gonna go pay these bills because nobody else is paying these bills but me, and and I don't have what am I what what what? All I know is to sit in the suffrage. I had to pick myself in that moment, but I didn't until I was let go suddenly for incompetence. Three days before I walked on stage at South by Southwest with Mark Cuban and the highest-ranking Latina in the White House, a part of a panel that I was one of three people who were selected to be a part of, and it was that moment. I had no clue. I had no clue what I was going to do next, whatsoever. But I knew I couldn't go because if if going back meant my experience was 50 times worse, what happens if I go back again? And it was in that moment where I was like,"Okay, I still, and mind you, it still took time. I still had to, you know, shudder off the fear of lack, but the comfort of survival, because I went for every role I could find. I kept applying, kept applying, kept applying, kept applying, and finally, I had this moment where I sat still. And I would say this for any women who are like feeling this right now, like feeling this energetically. Sometimes we have to sit still so that we can hear our true selves. We can hear that voice that we've been quietly telling. No, don't say that right now. I'm not ready for that. I don't want to hear that right now. That, but it's our internal piece that is like, no, no, no, no, don't do that again. Please don't do that again. Please don't do that again. Our cortisol is going back up. Our stress is going back up. Our hormones are going back up. Our belly rate, our weight is going. All of these things, and we don't even realize our body is fighting for that sit still moment. For that moment where we recognize, maybe, maybe this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing anymore. Simply because it's what I thought I should be doing, and that is why I created the Becoming Collective. Because I'm I'm a firm believer now in saying, don't run away from your job tomorrow. Don't run away from your job tomorrow. But if your health is on the line, then what is your job like? What was your healthcare package does not matter,

Erin Geiger: 35:30

right?

Unknown: 35:33

You're paying into something that cannot be resolved. So it's moment of of recognition that there is something in my life that has to be done differently, and then feeling powerful in that moment to say, okay, maybe I need a champion, cheerleader, advocate, resource group, collective, something that I can just be like, I'm messaging this in fear, but I'm hopeful that somebody will understand what I'm saying because I need somebody else who's been through this to be like, no, girl, you're good. It's not going to be easy, but you're good, and that's that's why I created this because, in my moment, I disappeared for like a year and a half. I didn't go out hardly. I cut off communication, and I just sat with myself. Yeah. And this is part of the version that I became because of it.

Erin Geiger: 36:40

It's it's such an important discussion to have now, always, but also now with all the layoffs that you're seeing, right? Like every day in the news, people are I was everybody impacted by layoffs, right? And it's like almost every day, you know, another company, like 20% of the company, 10% whatever it is, you know. And then AI is always mentioned. Do I always believe that it's it? No, but it's like that's in the headlines, right? It's clickbait. But so I think it's such an important discussion to have because so many people are being laid off, and then it's kind of that question. Now, what do I jump back into what I was doing, do I kind of blindly apply right to all of these different roles of what I was doing before? Because that's what I know, that's what's safe, that's a salary, that's whatever. Do or do I sit with myself, give myself time before jumping back into something else, and figure out well what should I be doing, you know, and then I read the articles of people who have been applying for roles for so long, you know, and then I think they get in their heads of like,"What's wrong with me? I can't even get an interview. I can't, you know, whatever. I'm trying to get these jobs, and you know, and it's like maybe that's not where you're supposed to be, right? You kind of see that that way too, yeah?

Unknown: 38:01

Because if it's it's like you know the the the idea of insanity, right? It's doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. And I would also say, just from a spiritual space and metaphysical, however you want to receive that, if the door that you're trying to bang down has a titanium vault behind it, it doesn't matter if you open that door, right? Because you're never going to get the vault open. So you you did all of that work to bust down a door that you weren't even going to be able to walk through in the first place. Meanwhile, there's this like rickety looking door behind you that you can kind of like see through, and you're like, eh, that looks not like me. I don't think you know. I don't think that's where I'm supposed to go through, but it looks ugly because it's not comfortable. It's not familiar. It's not the thing that you know. But the thing on the other side of that door, you're like, oh, this is me. This is actually wow. I didn't even know. Yeah, love this. You know, so it's it's it's taking that. If you can take that that metaphor, that analogy, and before you click apply one more Time. Ask yourself: Is this the place I want to work? Is this the place I want to spend my time? More time than I spend at home. More time than I with my family. Is this is this where I want to spend my time? And if the answer is yes, click it. But if there's reservation, ask yourself similar questions because we're we're allowed to ask questions,

Erin Geiger: 39:45

I know, and I feel like so many of us, myself included, it's just like onto the next thing. Let's keep moving. Let's keep going, you know. And it's like, stop. Be present. Listen, you know, listen to your body, your intuition will tell you so much instead of just blindly racing. Forward, which I think a lot of us have a tendency to do, and a lot, you know, it's I get it, you know, it's like you want that stability, and you know, and it's stressful otherwise, you know, but it's like maybe this has happened for a reason to be figured out. Oh my god, I could talk to you forever. I know we're almost that time. So if people want to connect with you online, what's the best way for them to do so?

Unknown: 40:26

I'm mostly active on LinkedIn under Natalie Poindexter. You can also find me on Instagram under Natalie Poindexter, and I have a YouTube channel called The Poindexter Effect that you can connect with me there too,

Erin Geiger: 40:41

awesome. Okay, we'll put those links on there, and then I always ask this one fun question because we love music over here. If you could listen to only one music artist for the rest of your life, who would it be?

Unknown: 40:52

One music artist for the rest of my life. Hmm. I have a tie.

Erin Geiger: 41:05

Okay.

Unknown: 41:06

My tie is Jill Scott or Hiatus Coyote. Okay. It it it it truly just depends on where where will I be listening to this?

Erin Geiger: 41:21

Yeah, I know. That's why the question is such a challenge because music flows with your how your life flows and what you're experiencing. Everything, so yeah.

Unknown: 41:33

I think if there was a human that could mesh them, like that would be whatever that artist is, the mesh of those two. That's what I would listen to.

Erin Geiger: 41:42

Okay, I love that. That's awesome. Well, thank you for taking the time. I had a blast chatting with you, and again, I think these are really important discussions to have right now, more so than ever. So I really appreciate your time and your your candor in doing so.

Unknown: 41:57

Thanks for having me, and I'm I'm excited to be able to talk about this because we need it. We need it more than we thought we need. You know, might need it now. So, thanks for creating this space. Awesome.